Daily Mail: The Church is facing extinction

[angos]

For heaven's sake... I'm talking about a benign modern message of a modern Church, not the horror, destruction and garbage of the Old Testament, which went out long ago. In fact I haven't mentioned the Bible at all.

I think we're well past the fire and brimstone stage, so why is it constantly being brought up in any discussion about modern Christianity?

 

On the other hand, if you like your religion bloody and destructive leave a gap and allow a few fundamentalists murderers to take hold and force their religion upon us.

 

The one thing that protects us is the fact that we have a benevolent, peaceful, easy going National Church to which we can all belong.

 

Surely a religion based on the words of an internal God can't simply be change just to suit our mood. And religion will never be forced upon us.

[Anna B]

Surely a religion based on the words of an internal God can't simply be change just to suit our mood. And religion will never be forced upon us.

 

You think?

 

This has been going on around the world for generations and is the source of much conflict. Just look around at what's happening in the world.

 

If we abandon the church of England do you think all religion is going to disappear in this country? Of course not, something else will take over.

We are a naturally tolerant nation and inclined to live and let live, but is this true of other more forceful religions? Look around at other countries. Would we be able to insist that ALL religion ceases?

 

Abandon our church and it would be like unilateral disarmament and leave us weak against all comers.

 

Better the devil you know....

[altus]

I'm talking infant school children in an ordinary primary school, not a Catholic school or anything like that. I don't think they're ready for comparative theology, (that comes later.) At that age they just need the basics, and as far as I'm aware most religions agree on the simple stuff, ie. God loves us and wants us to love each other, he watches over us and sees how we behave, so be good and not do each other harm... (any religion which doesn't teach that has problems) How to pray and say Grace and singing songs together that say thankyou for what we have. Is that indoctrination? As far as I can see it is non-denominational.

When I was at school I was never told I would burn in hell if I didn't behave - again any religion that does has serious issues. I was told it just makes God sad.

 

This country has been religious since the earliest settlements and predominantly Christian for over a thousand years. The C of E has finally developed into a benign influence, that hurts no one and accepts all.

 

But now the changes are coming thick and fast, and they are not always benign or accepting.

 

If you really believe that "most religions agree on the simple stuff" and that teaching kids those basics through claiming there is a god won't influence what they believe later in life then there's no reason to not have those things taught via another religion's point of view.

 

The fact is that it does influence what they end up believing later in life. Teaching only the Christian version means you will be discriminating against other religions and they won't stand for it - any more than Christians would stand for the teaching of only, say, the Islamic version. The ONLY way to treat everyone the same is to have no lessons on religion in schools apart from comparative theology classes (which should also include atheism).

[SnailyBoy]

[/b]

 

You think?

 

This has been going on around the world for generations and is the source of much conflict. Just look around at what's happening in the world.

 

If we abandon the church of England do you think all religion is going to disappear in this country? Of course not, something else will take over.

We are a naturally tolerant nation and inclined to live and let live, but is this true of other more forceful religions? Look around at other countries. Would we be able to insist that ALL religion ceases?

 

Abandon our church and it would be like unilateral disarmament and leave us weak against all comers.

 

Better the devil you know....

 

Have a look at Sweden as an example of a country virtually away from the burden of religion.

[Marx]

Let's just remove the Anglican version of stupid from our schools and the House of Lords. Make churches pay tax by default unless they can demonstrate charitable intent other than just being a church. Stop giving the silly men in hats prominent airtime when only a small minority of people actually care about them.While we are at reforming, remove the upper house altogether and the monarchy.

 

If people still want to go to church, that's fine by me. Just don't give church special priviledges.

[LeMaquis]

Abandon our church and it would be like unilateral disarmament and leave us weak against all comers.

 

There must be loads of countries with their armies on stand-by just in case we throw our bibles away. Just look at how Russia and China have been taken over so many times. And how successful the Bay Of Pigs invasion was.

[Lockjaw]

I'm glad to hear it, but what about the children of parents who don't? Those children have to get it from school; unambiguously, and on a regular daily basis to make it stick.

 

I prefer schools to develop children's sense of right and wrong by reasoning and example rather than fear of being watched by the clean bogey man.

 

 

By the time they realise, to answer dosxuk, that God does or doesn't exist, (?) the lessons have been learned and ingrained in the moral psyche.

 

...and they now know that those lessons and rules are all based on a lie. What psychological effect do you think that has? How's about ditching the lies and teaching them the lessons without the nonsense?

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2013 at 17:22 ----------

 

How can kids make up their own minds if they've never heard of him?

 

They won't have anything to make up their minds about.

[Anna B]

I prefer schools to develop children's sense of right and wrong by reasoning and example rather than fear of being watched by the clean bogey man.

 

 

...and they now know that those lessons and rules are all based on a lie. What psychological effect do you think that has? How's about ditching the lies and teaching them the lessons without the nonsense?

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2013 at 17:22 ----------

 

 

They won't have anything to make up their minds about.

 

This is pretty much what happens now. And has been happening for quite a

few years.

 

Working well isn't it?

 

Incidently, did you see the fuss that was made by parents because many schools no longer have nativity plays at Christmas?

Church attendance isn't necessarily a good barometer of whether people want some religion in their lives.

[angos]

I'm glad to hear it, but what about the children of parents who don't? Those children have to get it from school; unambiguously, and on a regular daily basis to make it stick.

 

By the time they realise, to answer dosxuk, that God does or doesn't exist, (?) the lessons have been learned and ingrained in the moral psyche.

I really think we are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Fear of what God might do apparently doesn't stop adults from doing bad things though.

 

A LAG who served time behind bars with Raoul Moat has told of the killer’s fascination with religion.

Philip L’Estrange was given a bible and Catholic rosary beads by the gunman just days before his release and shooting rampage.

 

The 27-year-old former inmate, who has since been released from HMP Durham, says Moat always attended church on Sundays during his stint in jail.

 

The bouncer, who was serving a 16-week stretch for an assault, had a collection of bibles in his cell and a Christian calendar covered in psalms on his wall.

 

Philip said: “I asked him for a diary and he gave me a bible.

 

“He had lots of them in his cell. He had a religious calendar on his wall.

 

“He seemed really into it all. It’s quite strange when you think about what he did. He wasn’t like that before.

 

“I think he was a religious man. You could only get that kind of bible by going to church.

 

After he died there was a remembrance service for him. He had been to church a lot so there were prayers for him.”

[Anna B]

...and they now know that those lessons and rules are all based on a lie. What psychological effect do you think that has? How's about ditching the lies and teaching them the lessons without the nonsense?

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2013 at 17:22 ----------

 

 

 

Who says they are lies? That's even more bigoted than my belief that all things are possible. At least entertain the possibility that you don't know it all.

 

Nobody knows anything for certain, so don't make other people's minds up for them.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2013 at 17:42 ----------

 

Fear of what God might do apparently doesn't stop adults from doing bad things though.

 

A LAG who served time behind bars with Raoul Moat has told of the killer’s fascination with religion.

Philip L’Estrange was given a bible and Catholic rosary beads by the gunman just days before his release and shooting rampage.

 

The 27-year-old former inmate, who has since been released from HMP Durham, says Moat always attended church on Sundays during his stint in jail.

 

The bouncer, who was serving a 16-week stretch for an assault, had a collection of bibles in his cell and a Christian calendar covered in psalms on his wall.

 

Philip said: “I asked him for a diary and he gave me a bible.

 

“He had lots of them in his cell. He had a religious calendar on his wall.

 

“He seemed really into it all. It’s quite strange when you think about what he did. He wasn’t like that before.

 

“I think he was a religious man. You could only get that kind of bible by going to church.

 

After he died there was a remembrance service for him. He had been to church a lot so there were prayers for him.”

 

True, but there are also lots of bad people in prison with no moral conscience at all. And no way of measuring how many people don't do bad things because of religious beliefs.