Bible - Fiction?

[SnailyBoy]

Take a look at this Flaming Jimmy, and get a sense of perspective.

http://1933key.com/History-1933/Why-Germans-Supported-Hitler

 

And I would just like to say.

Thank goodness every Jewish person doesn't feel the same way as you, and that most are not intent on blaming Christianity for the suffering they've endured.

 

You know that's basically a conspiracy theorist website, don't you?

[Lockjaw]

You tell me why not.

 

 

Come on Bonzo. You made the statement. Tell us why you believe it to be so.

[Ryedo40]

Perhaps that detail will remain hypothetical, because there have been so many books written about Hitler filled with contradictory quotes from those who had personal contact with him.

 

Janie, I've studied quite a lot about Hitler - although that was over 10 years ago. At that time I ran a campaign against a TV documentary that blatantly tried to give the impression that the Nazis(as a whole) were atheist. I believe it hasn't been aired since.

 

Quotes by those who had personal contact with him also make reference of his religious beliefs. I'll also add: Even those who were very familiar with Hitler, like Eva Braun, were also theist.

 

Hitler never claimed to be an atheist. Not once. He makes reference to his god belief, and religion, in both his private and public writings and speeches.

 

The TV documentary that was on earlier in the year "The Dark Charisma of Adolph Hitler" gave much insight into his psychotic personality. It demonstrated just how manipulative and opportunist he was.

 

Yes, he was manipulative and an opportunist. That doesn't make him any less theist. Countless theists are manipulative opportunists.

 

He certainly hated Christianity with a vengeance, but needed to be heard supporting it at public gatherings when he was condemning Communism and saying it was an evil threat to the nation.

 

Hitler did not hate Christianity with a passion. He hated what variants of Christianity were becoming(something I previously pointed out.)

 

Yes, communism was seen as a "godless" threat to many theists. Hitler, being theist, also saw it as a threat.

 

He arranged for the Gestapo to spy on the clergy at church services, so that if they were heard to be condemning the fascist regime they could be arrested and executed, as so many were.

 

That doesn't make him any less theist. The Catholic church used to send out spies looking for heretics who would be imprisoned, tortured and executed.

[janie48]

You know that's basically a conspiracy theorist website, don't you?

We find it difficult to comprehend why so many German people appeared to support the Fascist regime. The article that refers to that gives some insight.

That's what I was reflecting on.

[SnailyBoy]

We find it difficult to comprehend why so many German people appeared to support the Fascist regime. The article that refers to that gives some insight.

That's what I was reflecting on.

 

I don't find it difficult to comprehend at all. In very simplistic terms Hitler gave them jobs and their nationalistic pride back. He built up the armed forces etc......the rest is obviously history.

[Ryedo40]

We find it difficult to comprehend why so many German people appeared to support the Fascist regime. The article that refers to that gives some insight.

That's what I was reflecting on.

 

Why would it be difficult to comprehend? German Christians are humans and prone to fear like the rest of us. Seeing Jews, communism & atheism as a threat - and having a leader promising to combat those "threats" and get Germany back on its feet is bound to attract support in that sort of climate.

 

A similar thing may be happening today in the UK.

[janie48]

Janie, I've studied quite a lot about Hitler - although that was over 10 years ago. At that time I ran a campaign against a TV documentary that blatantly tried to give the impression that the Nazis(as a whole) were atheist. I believe it hasn't been aired since. Quotes by those who had personal contact with him also make reference of his religious beliefs. Even those who were very familiar with Hitler, like Eva Braun, were also theist.

 

Hitler never claimed to be an atheist. Not once. He makes reference to his god belief, and religion, in both his private and public speeches.

 

 

 

Yes, he was manipulative and an opportunist. That doesn't make him any less theist. Countless theists are manipulative opportunist.

 

 

 

Hitler did not hate Christianity with a passion. He hated what variants of Christianity were becoming(something I previously pointed out.)

 

Yes, communism was seen as a "godless" threat to many theists. Hitler, being theist, also saw it as a threat.

 

 

 

That doesn't make him any less theist. The Catholic church used to send out spies looking for heretics who would be imprisoned, tortured and executed.

Hitler had only one belief, and that was that he was the most powerful person on earth, and of course he saw Communism as a threat, as he did with any other system that would prevent him from ruling the world.

Hitler was totally deluded.

[Ryedo40]

Hitler had only one belief...

 

That's silly.

 

Hitler was totally deluded.

 

Yes, he was deluded.

[janie48]

I don't find it difficult to comprehend at all. In very simplistic terms Hitler gave them jobs and their nationalistic pride back. He built up the armed forces etc......the rest is obviously history.

Although I said "we" I already had some understanding of the German reaction to Hitler's rule.

Some of it I observed through study, and some through personal contact with some German people I met when I lived there for a short period. Not that it was mentioned too often, but the war subject did crop up on a couple of occasions.

That's silly.

 

 

 

Yes, he was deluded.

Don't you admit he used religion as a political ploy.

The quotes I have seen referring to belief have been ambiguous to say the least, depending on who he was addressing at the time.

In a nation dominated by Christian belief at that time, he was hardly going to achieve the position he desired by an admission to atheism in his speeches to the masses.

[Ryedo40]

Don't you admit he used religion as a political ploy.

 

Yes, he used religion. But that doesn't mean he didn't have any religious sentiments. And that doesn't mean he wasn't theist.

 

The quotes I have seen referring to belief have been ambiguous to say the least, depending on who he was addressing at the time.

 

I've not seen one quote, and I've read hundreds, where his belief in god was ambiguous - regardless of who he was addressing. Where Christianity is concerned, at most, like countless other Christians, he criticised the corruption in the Church. He also criticised some of the theological aspects of the faith like transubstantiation. He also condemned the Protestant and Catholic Churches for opposing each other.

 

In a nation dominated by Christian belief at that time, he was hardly going to achieve the position he desired by an admission to atheism in his speeches to the masses.

 

If communists(before Nazism) were capable of gaining support in devout Christian Russia(later gaining support in Germany too), why couldn't Hitler do the same in Germany?

 

Even in the devout Christian UK almost a century before, famous atheists like Charles Bradlaugh were elected to Parliament.

 

So that doesn't quite wash with me Janie.

 

Everything about Hitler - from his early childhood through to his young adulthood - and later political career, there is reference for his religious beliefs - and his god belief. He'd then got himself involved with the anti-Semitic Christian Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party in Vienna whose literature and speeches fuelled his hatred towards the Jew. Some of his other influences were: Martin Luther, Arthur de Gobineau (19th century Catholic aristocrat who wrote about race) and Houston Stewart Chamberlain(a devout Christian and one of the founders of Nazism and the new variant of Christianity.)