janie48 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 So what. Most theologians, over the centuries, have worked from the assumption that the gospels are true; that Jesus did live, perform miracles, die and resurrect. Most were believers before becoming theologians. So they had a natural bias towards scripture and the claims made by their predecessors. Arguments to the contrary were often dismissed, ignored, banished or destroyed; works by early critics, such as Porphyry - who argued the accounts in the gospels were 'telling myths' and unreliable - are an example of that. Later critics, including Christians, had to tread carefully or risk being accused of heresy and blasphemy. And the consequences of that weren't very nice. Theologians invent the theology to fit with their own subjective beliefs and what is claimed in the gospels. When they find contradictions and other problems in the gospels, they behave like Star Trek fans who find contradictions and errors in scripts that build up the Star Trek universe: they ignore it or come up with all sorts of mind bending, and sometimes laughable, apologetics to get around the problem. Why? But that's assuming the story is true. And what are you on about? Why would the apostles fear believing her story would result in them being arrested, imprisoned or worse? Just to add: The earliest mention of the resurrection, if I remember correctly, appears in the Gnostic Acts of Peter(something to do with a spiritual resurrection and not a physical one). It also mentions the resurrection of a tuna fish, talking dogs and flying wizards. There's no mention, from any other source than the Bible, of an earthquake taking place or zombies rising from their tombs and venturing into the city when Jesus was killed or resurrected. No mention of Jesus' death from any other source. Why do these witnesses, majority of whom are nameless, only appear in the Bible. And why do the named ones, gnostic and NT, report bat**** crazy stuff like earthquakes with rocks splitting in half, zombies, talking dogs and flying wizards. No other source, Jewish, Roman or whatever, mentions anything about those things taking place. Don't you find that odd, Janie? I'm not surprised you believe those theologians "invent the theology to fit in with their beliefs" you're an atheist so why would you think otherwise. I'm not interested in those Gnostic gospels, they are not the main source of my faith, the biblical gospels are. Yes I do I believe there were eyewitness accounts? no one had anything to gain by spreading lies and inventing a myth, other then risking their lives under the authority of the Roman leaders, which appears was the final outcome for many of them. I have no doubt there were sceptics throughout the centuries, there always have been, especially now with what's on the internet, and the books that are being published trashing the bible. Some with what they believe to be the right intentions, but others that are just merely doing so for nothing more then making a huge profit. Despite all that billions of us around the world will continue to believe, and the religion will constantly go through its ebbs and flows just like it always has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werdna69 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Why not just have a Religion section. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I'm not surprised you believe those theologians "invent the theology to fit in with their beliefs" you're an atheist so why would you think otherwise. Of course they invent theology based on scripture and their beliefs on what they think their god is. You don't think they've got some magic hotline where they get their info directly, do you? ...no one had anything to gain by spreading lies and inventing a myth, other then risking their lives under the authority of the Roman leaders, which appears was the final outcome for many of them. Many of who? Where is the long list of names of those who witnessed the empty tomb - and his resurrection. How many in that "long list" were attacked by Roman leaders for believing in the resurrection of a physical Jesus. Roman authorities hardly persecuted Christians during its first 200 years. When they were "persecuted" by Roman authorities, it was short-lived and usually because they were making trouble for the state: refusing to pay taxes(because of their own intolerance or yearning for martyrdom) or after receiving complaints from other citizens. During the 2nd century, some Christians were so deluded they believed that martyrdom would get them straight to heaven. They did all they could to get Roman authorities to kill them. There's a long history of cult leaders willing to spread myths and lies to maintain control and power over those gullible enough to follow them - even when faced with attack from authorities. The Rev Jim Jones cult, whose followers believed he could heal amputees, is an example of that. And what about Brigham Young and Mormonism with its claimed golden tablets. Cult-leader have a lot to gain - whether they believe their own nonsense or not. Jesus the man may have existed, but I don't see how he'd be different from any other cult leader. And like other cult leaders, he may have been just as deluded as his followers. If he didn't exist, then the inventors of Christianity were the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psynuk Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 no one had anything to gain by spreading lies and inventing a myth, Do you honestly believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 As an agnostic, raised a Catholic but unable to suspend logic to the degree required to believe, I do not discount the possibility of there being a creative force. I do however discount that Creator being anything like a God that the feeble imagination of man could envisage. All religions on earth worship Gods which were invented by some humans imagination. That does not mean there is no God, but it does mean we have absolutely no idea of the nature of such a being. It also means there is little chance of an after life. Why would there be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Of course they invent theology based on scripture and their beliefs on what they think their god is. You don't think they've got some magic hotline where they get their info directly, do you? Many of who? Where is the long list of names of those who witnessed the empty tomb - and his resurrection. How many in that "long list" were attacked by Roman leaders for believing in the resurrection of a physical Jesus. Roman authorities hardly persecuted Christians during its first 200 years. When they were "persecuted" by Roman authorities, it was short-lived and usually because they were making trouble for the state: refusing to pay taxes(because of their own intolerance or yearning for martyrdom) or after receiving complaints from other citizens. During the 2nd century, some Christians were so deluded they believed that martyrdom would get them straight to heaven. They did all they could to get Roman authorities to kill them. There's a long history of cult leaders willing to spread myths and lies to maintain control and power over those gullible enough to follow them - even when faced with attack from authorities. The Rev Jim Jones cult, whose followers believed he could heal amputees, is an example of that. And what about Brigham Young and Mormonism with its claimed golden tablets. Cult-leader have a lot to gain - whether they believe their own nonsense or not. Jesus the man may have existed, but I don't see how he'd be different from any other cult leader. And like other cult leaders, he may have been just as deluded as his followers. If he didn't exist, then the inventors of Christianity were the same. There have always be cult leaders pretending to be followers of Jesus, I know that. I'm sure you mean well, but you'll never succeed trying to convert me to atheism, ten out of ten for persistence though Ryedo. I'm off here now, its only a week to Christmas and I've got loads to do. No offence meant to anyone, but God bless you all, and have a good Christmas x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 There have always be cult leaders pretending to be followers of Jesus, I know that. I'm sure you mean well, but you'll never succeed trying to convert me to atheism, ten out of ten for persistence though Ryedo. I'm off here now, its only a week to Christmas and I've got loads to do. No offence meant to anyone, but God bless you all, and have a good Christmas x Only trying to get you to think, Janie. Have a good Christmas, Saturnalia, Brumalia, Yule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It also means there is little chance of an after life. Why would there be? There isn't "life" as such (i.e. body+soul). Bodies die; souls don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 There isn't "life" as such (i.e. body+soul). Bodies die; souls don't. If a persons memories are held in the soul, how do you account for people loosing their memories after brain trauma and dementia's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 If a persons memories are held in the soul Why do you think that, please? (An honest question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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