Bible - Fiction?

[mjw47]

It's my view that you are an agnostic atheist like me, the only difference being that you don't like the second word so reject it.

 

Embrace it, it simply means you're not a theist.

 

I have what I believe to be a perfectly natural detestation of being told what I am, by anyone. In particular I find it especially annoying when the person concerned has no idea who I am.

 

So please accept what I say. I am agnostic. A theist & an atheist believe & disbelieve respectively.

An agnostic understands that humanity lacks the knowledge to know either way & accepts that fact as simply the way it is.

 

Hopefully you will accept this without further argument.

 

---------- Post added 18-12-2013 at 23:43 ----------

 

So that would be the same for unicorns, pixies.....etc?

 

Yes it would.

 

---------- Post added 18-12-2013 at 23:46 ----------

 

You sure about that?

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with that but was pointing out that you are confusing atheistism and antitheistism.

 

Maybe I am, but do you know what? Seeing as both of them are unprovable beliefs I really don't care.

 

---------- Post added 18-12-2013 at 23:51 ----------

 

He/she doesn't. That's the point.

 

Yes they obviously do. They BELIEVE, with no proven facts to support them that there is no God.

 

Without proof, all they have is a BELIEF in the correctness of their assumption.

 

[milquetoast1]

I have what I believe to be a perfectly natural detestation of being told what I am, by anyone. In particular I find it especially annoying when the person concerned has no idea who I am.

 

So please accept what I say. I am agnostic. A theist & an atheist believe & disbelieve respectively.

An agnostic understands that humanity lacks the knowledge to know either way & accepts that fact as simply the way it is.

 

Hopefully you will accept this without further argument.

 

You have every right to label yourself however you see fit.

 

I have every right to label you however I see fit. Just as you have, about mine, a few lines above.

 

But the only person who is demanding that their view be respected, and not challenged, is you, right there, in that post.

[Ryedo40]

I am agnostic. A theist & an atheist believe & disbelieve respectively.

 

You do know the prefix 'a' negates, don't you. So if you are not theist, you are a[not]theist: atheist.

 

You are an atheist. It's that simple.

[RootsBooster]

Yes it does, the clue was in the third word of your last sentence. It requires the BELIEF that there is no God.

what makes you think that?

He/she doesn't. That's the point.

 

An atheist can believe in anything they want, just not in the existence of gods

[milquetoast1]

I have what I believe to be a perfectly natural detestation of being told what I am, by anyone. In particular I find it especially annoying when the person concerned has no idea who I am.

 

Yes they obviously do. They BELIEVE, with no proven facts to support them that there is no God.

 

Without proof, all they have is a BELIEF in the correctness of their assumption.

 

Rather funny really.

[RootsBooster]

I have what I believe to be a perfectly natural detestation of being told what I am, by anyone.

You might not like being told that you're a homosapien, or that you're bipedal, but if that's what you are then that's what you are.

In particular I find it especially annoying when the person concerned has no idea who I am.

Well, from your earlier posts we've gathered that you're not convinced that a god exists (which means you are without belief), this makes you an atheist. We've also gathered that you class yourself as an agnostic, this would make you most likely an agnostic atheist (although you seem to think that the position of agnosticism is a middle ground between theism and atheism)

 

So please accept what I say. I am agnostic. A theist & an atheist believe & disbelieve respectively.

The simplest analogy I can think of is that if belief that gods do or don't exist are two sides of the same coin, then absence of belief is simply not having a coin at all.

An agnostic understands that humanity lacks the knowledge to know either way & accepts that fact as simply the way it is.

Yes, knowledge being the key word. Theism and atheism are concerned with belief. Gnosticism and agnosticism are concerned with knowledge.

They run parallel to one another, not in place of one another.

 

 

Yes they obviously do. They BELIEVE, with no proven facts to support them that there is no God.

 

Without proof, all they have is a BELIEF in the correctness of their assumption.

 

I am an atheist, I don't hold the belief that there are no gods though

[lipschitz]

The problem I have with religion stems from the R.E classes ar school and having to listen to the stories of how different characters performed these amazing feats like walking on water, parting a sea, talking to burning bushes and even just talking to god or having god talk to them. Since that time there have been no miracles reliably witnessed and documented to prove the existence of a higher power known as a god. If I were to have a firm belief in the norse gods I would be considered an idiot. However, there is just as much evidence to support their existence as there is to support that of god or allah. I just don't get how so many people can believe so fully in something that has no real evidence of it's existence.

Religion really is the opium of the people. A method which the few can control the many. Maybe it was fine years ago when education was limited and the masses needed controlling but now with good education, surely people can control themselves and see that religious writings are pure fantasy.

[Ryedo40]

The problem I have with religion stems from the R.E classes ar school and having to listen to the stories of how different characters performed these amazing feats like walking on water, parting a sea, talking to burning bushes and even just talking to god or having god talk to them.

 

I was brought up in a non-religious family, and while my parents didn't have a great education, they always encouraged me to question things and allowed me to speak about anything that was on my mind. When it came to things like the Bible(we had a very dusty one with pretty pictures of people drowning in a flood), I'd look at my parents and say these stories don't make sense or can't be true; they'd then openly tell me some of the problems they had with the stories. So I grew up forming my own doubts about the stories in Bible while taking on-board some of my parents problems with it.

 

R.E at my school, especially during infants and juniors, was limited to singing hymns during assembly and a few tales about Jesus' birth, god or noah and his animals. It was all presented as true and in a way that would make Kim Jong il look like a saint. But none of it rung true with me and the god they tried to indoctrinate me with just didn't seem to exist; so I didn't give religion or god belief much thought until I was older. By then I just saw it as obvious, and uninspiring outdated fiction(who needs that when there's better fiction about like Starwars and Superman).

 

 

Religion really is the opium of the people. A method which the few can control the many. Maybe it was fine years ago when education was limited and the masses needed controlling but now with good education, surely people can control themselves and see that religious writings are pure fantasy.

 

Organised religions, like governments, were really - especially in earlier centuries - just like gangs of organised thugs. It was basically: obey us or we will kill you. I think the majority of people didn't really need controlling. The ones that did were usually the ones doing the controlling.

[barleycorn]

So what does an atheist believe.

 

Yes it does, the clue was in the third word of your last sentence. It requires the BELIEF that there is no God.

 

You appear to be struggling with what atheist means. It s simply lack of belief in God. This is not the same as believing there is no God.

A simple question to highlight the difference:

Do you think not collecting stamps is a hobby?

 

jb

[RootsBooster]

You appear to be struggling with what atheist means. It s simply lack of belief in God. This is not the same as believing there is no God.

A simple question to highlight the difference:

Do you think not collecting stamps is a hobby?

 

jb

 

To make it easier for him to understand, it's better to point out that an atheist CAN (also) believe that there is no god (and many do) but the only requirement necessary to qualify as an atheist is that you must be without belief in gods.

 

It's like a footballer, he may also be a striker, but the only thing he needs to do to be a footballer is play football.