mjw47 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 You have every right to label yourself however you see fit. I have every right to label you however I see fit. Just as you have, about mine, a few lines above. But the only person who is demanding that their view be respected, and not challenged, is you, right there, in that post. Incorrect, I am not asking you to respect my view at all. Please feel free to challenge any views which I may express at any time & give your alternative opinion.. That is in fact what views on forums are all about, someones opinion which can be challenged or added to by some other posters differing viewpoint. It's interesting & sometimes even informative. But that isn't what you did is it? You didn't disagree with a viewpoint or opinion. Because what was posted by me wasn't a view, it was as far as I am concerned a fact. I am an agnostic, & what you tried to do was tell me exactly what specific type of agnostic I was. As I pointed out, you don't know me nor I you,so you can't possibly have an opinion on the workings of my inner soul or my philosophy of life can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Incorrect, I am not asking you to respect my view at all. Please feel free to challenge any views which I may express at any time & give your alternative opinion.. That is in fact what views on forums are all about, someones opinion which can be challenged or added to by some other posters differing viewpoint. It's interesting & sometimes even informative. But that isn't what you did is it? You didn't disagree with a viewpoint or opinion. Because what was posted by me wasn't a view, it was as far as I am concerned a fact. I am an agnostic, & what you tried to do was tell me exactly what specific type of agnostic I was. As I pointed out, you don't know me nor I you,so you can't possibly have an opinion on the workings of my inner soul or my philosophy of life can you? I would think an agnostic by definition is also an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I would think an agnostic by definition is also an atheist. No, an agnostic is someone who admits they simply don't know. Not something you find a lot of on this forum . Not knowing includes the possibility that there may be a God, something atheists are fairly adamant about, no possibility of God in their Belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Incorrect, I am not asking you to respect my view at all. Please feel free to challenge any views which I may express at any time & give your alternative opinion.. That is in fact what views on forums are all about, someones opinion which can be challenged or added to by some other posters differing viewpoint. It's interesting & sometimes even informative. But that isn't what you did is it? You didn't disagree with a viewpoint or opinion. Because what was posted by me wasn't a view, it was as far as I am concerned a fact. I am an agnostic, & what you tried to do was tell me exactly what specific type of agnostic I was. As I pointed out, you don't know me nor I you,so you can't possibly have an opinion on the workings of my inner soul or my philosophy of life can you? Read what I said again. I said; "it's my view that you are an agnostic atheist like me". It was a description of what I think the correct label for you is given what you have said, an opinion shared by others here I might add. Read what you then said about me as an atheist immediately after. You said; "Yes they obviously do. They BELIEVE, with no proven facts to support them that there is no God. Without proof, all they have is a BELIEF in the correctness of their assumption." It's you that is expressing a rather dogmatic opinion of atheists, and double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 No, an agnostic is someone who admits they simply don't know. Not something you find a lot of on this forum . Not knowing includes the possibility that there may be a God, something atheists are fairly adamant about, no possibility of God in their Belief. Then you misunderstand the term 'atheist'. Given it has been explained to you many times on this thread, that misunderstanding is now wilful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Then you misunderstand the term 'atheist'. Given it has been explained to you many times on this thread, that misunderstanding is now wilful. ... and the term agnostic. I don't know why people find it so difficult as it's really not complicated. (A)gnostism relates to knowledge, (a)theism relates to belief. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 ... and the term agnostic. I don't know why people find it so difficult as it's really not complicated. (A)gnostism relates to knowledge, (a)theism relates to belief. jb Yes, and whilst the term agnostic can be grey (I'm a bit agnostic, or totally agnostic), the terms theist/atheist are binary. Somebody who can't answer yes to the question "do you believe in god/gods", is an atheist imho. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 To make it easier for him to understand, it's better to point out that an atheist CAN (also) believe that there is no god (and many do) but the only requirement necessary to qualify as an atheist is that you must be without belief in gods. It's like a footballer, he may also be a striker, but the only thing he needs to do to be a footballer is play football. To make it easier for some of you guys to understand, as you don't appear to be able to differentiate between what is a known fact & what is simply a belief, let me give you an analogy. The weather yesterday was experienced by those of us present. Likewise the weather today up to this moment is also known to us. Therefore, anyone can describe what the weather was like, or is like, as a matter of fact. Tomorrow's weather however, is a different situation altogether. Meteorology is a science,& the Met Office will have presented us with a forecast. That forecast is not however a fact. Until it happens there is no certainty that it will turn out as they said it would. For someone to act upon the forecast & change their plans to suit requires a Belief in the science of meteorology, which may or may not turn out to be true. That is the difference between what is Known & is therefore a Fact & what is Believed & may or may not turn out to be Factual. Therefore, for an atheist to say they have no belief makes no sense. To hold the view that there is no God requires a belief that God doesn't exist & as they can't prove that to be true, it becomes a Belief. The only way that some of you could be correct in your assertion that there is no belief involved whatsoever in atheism, is if you had never given any thought, at any time to the notion of a God. But then of course you wouldn't have heard the word atheism & be on here claiming to be atheists which is itself a belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien52 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Yes, and whilst the term agnostic can be grey (I'm a bit agnostic, or totally agnostic), the terms theist/atheist are binary. Somebody who can't answer yes to the question "do you believe in god/gods", is an atheist imho. Simples. You are a meerkat and I don't need insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I would think an agnostic by definition is also an atheist. No, an agnostic is of the position that nothing can be known about the existence of god/s. They can still believe or not believe. No, an agnostic is someone who admits they simply don't know. Not something you find a lot of on this forum . Not knowing includes the possibility that there may be a God, something atheists are fairly adamant about, no possibility of God in their Belief. Where do you get your definition of atheist from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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