Bible - Fiction?

[janie48]

 

Maybe as he's getting older his bottle is going & he's looking to hedge his bets.

 

I'm not getting email updates on threads since they did some work a while back so missed this. My apologies.

 

Whether Richard Dawkins will ever change his mind is doubtful, but your comment reminded me of the Professor Anthony Flew admission.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/atheist-believes-in-god/

 

 

On the subject of email updates, I was beginning to think I was the only one.

I still don't know the reason.

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1257454

[RootsBooster]

Where exactly did I do that?

 

Two of many examples...

Which makes it a Belief that there is no God

An Atheist does not believe in a God or Gods

 

---------- Post added 20-12-2013 at 21:11 ----------

 

If you do not believe there is a God then you naturally would not believe in him would you?

You just said the same thing twice

 

So asking someone who has just said 'I do not believe in God' the question 'So you believe there is no God?' Would bring forth the reply 'As I've just said, tin ears, I don't believe there is such a thing.'

If they gave you that response it would mean they have an extremely short memory.

 

One last go for you to try and come to terms with whatever issue it is that you have with either understanding or accepting the difference...

 

1. Mike is without belief in any gods, he has no belief in gods, he does not believe in gods, he has an absence of belief in gods. These are all the same position. (this makes him an atheist)

2. Janet is not only without belief in gods, she also holds the belief that there are no gods, she believes that no gods exist. (this would make her an anti-theist, because she holds the opposing belief to theism)

3. Mike does not hold such a belief, he is open to the possibility that god/s may exist. However, he thinks that such things can never be known for definite, this makes him also an agnostic (He is an agnostic atheist)

4. Janet claims to know that it is impossible for gods to exist, she claims that she knows no gods exist. This makes her also gnostic (she is a gnostic atheist, or to be more precise, a gnostic anti-theist)

 

I don't actually expect that you'll ever acknowledge the difference and it's significance, but it's there for you.

[mjw47]

Two of many examples...

 

OK glad you have taken such an interest .

 

A lack of belief is in fact a belief isn't it?

 

'I don't believe the Blades will win the FA cup in my lifetime.'

 

'I believe the Blades won't win the FA cup in my lifetime.'

 

Unfortunately neither do I.

[Lockjaw]

I don't think it is though, it's how many angels can dance on the head of a pin nonsense. The type of absolute Horlicks that normal people have no time for.

The above is of course your personal interpretation which you are fully entitled to.

 

One is saying that there are no Gods. OK that's a clear statement of belief.

 

The other is saying they don't believe in Gods. ok not quite as definite but seriously who gives a ****? I don't, & my advice to anyone who does is 'get a life'.

 

There is no proof of anything to do with religion or lack thereof.

 

Happy Christmas.

 

Any old idiot can come along and argue the toss about any old subject by refusing to accept the accepted definitions of some words.

 

It made you come across as a total knob last time and this time is, unsurprisingly, no different.

 

Merry Christmas to you too.

[mjw47]

You do understand my basic premise don't you?

There is no proof as to the existence of God(s).

There is also no proof as to the non existence of God(s)

 

Therefore, all debate on the matter is otiose, irrelevant conjecture carried out by people with too much time on their hands, myself included.

 

In the case of religious believers there is some sense in their participation in debate as they have a sense of purpose however misguided it may be.

 

In the case of Atheists however, of whatever hue,there really is no purpose in discussing a negative is there?

 

Okay you don't believe. We get it. There should be nothing else to add, should there?

 

All you have is an argument on definitions & semantics. This seems to get you all worked up. Why?

 

You don't believe, that is your belief, there is nothing out there nada zilch, bugger all.

 

So why are you posting on a thread about the Bible? Why even open it? Are you trying to convert the believers? If so why?

 

Or are you on here to show off your expertise in wordplay, semantics & definitions?

 

I'm on here because I knew you'd be here, & I'm a self confessed extractor of urine, whats your motive?

 

Not telling anyone whether or not they may or may not post by the way. Do what you want, it's a relatively free country thus far, & I'm all for free expression.

 

Just curious.

 

---------- Post added 20-12-2013 at 21:50 ----------

 

Any old idiot can come along and argue the toss about any old subject by refusing to accept the accepted definitions of some words.

 

It made you come across as a total knob last time and this time is, unsurprisingly, no diferent.

 

Merry Christmas to you too.

 

My memory isn't what it was, but I do remember last time that the mods had to stop it because one Atheist semantic expert had obviously began to froth at the mouth & the men in white coats were on their way.

 

I can tell by your last sentence that I won that one hands down. I knew it anyway, but it's extra sweet when the opposition prove the point.

[RootsBooster]

A lack of belief is in fact a belief isn't it?

 

Of course it's not, have a read of what you just wrote there

[Ryedo40]

You do understand my basic premise don't you?

There is no proof as to the existence of God(s).

There is also no proof as to the non existence of God(s)

 

Therefore, all debate on the matter is otiose, irrelevant conjecture carried out by people with too much time on their hands, myself included.

 

This thread is about whether the Bible is fiction or not. Few have been discussing the matter of whether a god actually exists or not. That aside, some people, atheist and theist alike, enjoy discussion about religion, its history and its mythology - and the social issues that arise from those things.

 

Why that annoys you and prompts you to go into troll mode I've no idea.

 

In the case of religious believers there is some sense in their participation in debate as they have a sense of purpose however misguided it may be.

 

In the case of Atheists however, of whatever hue,there really is no purpose in discussing a negative is there?

 

Well we haven't really been discussing atheism until you came along disrupting the thread.

 

So why are you posting on a thread about the Bible? Why even open it? Are you trying to convert the believers? If so why?

 

Why not discuss the Bible. Atheists and theists discuss other books; Shades of Grey, Harry Potter, The Iliad by Homer, The God Delusion... to name a few.

 

I'm sure you don't turn into a raving troll when those books are discussed by fans and critics alike. So what's your problem with people discussing the Bible?

[mort]

Keep it civil please.

[mjw47]

Of course it's not, have a read of what you just wrote there

 

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

 

I do not believe this government will survive the next election.

 

I believe the government will not survive the next election.

 

Got it?

 

---------- Post added 21-12-2013 at 00:55 ----------

 

This thread is about whether the Bible is fiction or not. Few have been discussing the matter of whether a god actually exists or not. That aside, some people, atheist and theist alike, enjoy discussion about religion, its history and its mythology - and the social issues that arise from those things.

 

Why that annoys you and prompts you to go into troll mode I've no idea.

 

 

 

Well we haven't really been discussing atheism until you came along disrupting the thread.

 

 

 

Why not discuss the Bible. Atheists and theists discuss other books; Shades of Grey, Harry Potter, The Iliad by Homer, The God Delusion... to name a few.

 

I'm sure you don't turn into a raving troll when those books are discussed by fans and critics alike. So what's your problem with people discussing the Bible?

 

Nothing is annoying me, plenty is amusing me.

 

Atheism was mentioned at post 3, we're now in the mid 400's

 

I am a voracious reader, but only read books which interest me. Seem logical?

 

Why would someone who claims to believe in oblivion as our destination, wish to read a book which promises an afterlife to believers?

 

Secret believer?

 

Or maybe just someone who wishes to demonstrate their prowess at semantics, etymology & definitions?

 

Because it seems to me that's all you guys contribute.

 

What about a discussion as to what is the meaning of life? How about a view as to what happens when we 'shuffle off this Earthly coil'?

 

I forgot, you don't have any opinion on any of that do you? How could you, you don't believe there is anything else, so the matter is not up for debate.

 

Tell us more about the definitions of differing beliefs, explain the etymology of the word belief, tell us of the origin of descriptive terminology in the pre Christian pagan belief system, we're truly fascinated by your erudition.

[Ryedo40]

Atheism was mentioned at post 3, we're now in the mid 400's

 

It may have been mentioned but the topic of the thread is about the Bible being fiction or not. Something I have discussed.

 

I am a voracious reader, but only read books which interest me. Seem logical?

 

I read books that interest me: history, archaeology, science & psychology. I also read books on mythology(theology) and other fiction.

 

Why would someone who claims to believe in oblivion as our destination, wish to read a book which promises an afterlife to believers?

 

To understand other people's views, the history behind those views and the reasoning behind those views. It would also be silly to argue against something or believe something without giving it any consideration or investigation. Religion also plays a negative and positive role in society - identifying the influence behind those attributes helps improve my understanding and arguments.

 

Maybe you should consider doing something like the above.

 

 

Or maybe just someone who wishes to demonstrate their prowess at semantics, etymology & definitions?

 

Maybe you are projecting here because it seems to me that is what you've been trying to do. People here have simply corrected you on your straw-man arguments.

 

What about a discussion as to what is the meaning of life? How about a view as to what happens when we 'shuffle off this Earthly coil'?

 

The meaning of life? I don't know. As far as I can tell we are biological organisms that strive to survive and consume, reproduce and die. Is there some ultimate outside purpose for that? There doesn't seem to be.

 

'Shuffle off this earthly coil' - I guess you mean when we die. By the looks of things our cells deteriorate and we become a putrid mass of rotting flesh, bone and bodily fluids. Parasites, bacteria and other critters then make a meal of us - especially if we aren't cremated.

 

I forgot, you don't have any opinion on any of that do you? How could you, you don't believe there is anything else, so the matter is not up for debate.

 

Again, another misrepresentation of atheists.

 

Of course I have an opinion on it: I do not believe in an afterlife because I find no good convincing reason to believe there is one.

 

But my views on the above are nothing to do with my atheism. Atheists can believe in all sorts of crazy stuff: an afterlife, vampires, leprechauns, psychokinesis,... you name it. We just don't believe in gods.