RootsBooster Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Is it or is it not a Belief? If not, then why is it perfectly acceptable to describe it as such? Which one? One of them is and one of them isn't Both statements could be uttered by the same person & he would believe them to mean exactly the same thing. Only if he didn't understand the difference. We're back to semantics again, you're over thinking the situation for the sake of continuing the argument. No, I'm not. I'm explaining to you the two different meanings of the two sentences. They are similar but the first one is a meaning all on it's own, however, the second one also encompasses the first... -To believe that something won't survive, you automatically don't believe that it will survive This doesn't work the other way round though, with the first sentence... -If you don't believe that something will survive it doesn't automatically mean that you believe it won't survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Which one? One of them is and one of them isn't Only if he didn't understand the difference. No, I'm not. I'm explaining to you the two different meanings of the two sentences. They are similar but the first one is a meaning all on it's own, however, the second one also encompasses the first... -To believe that something won't survive, you automatically don't believe that it will survive This doesn't work the other way round though, with the first sentence... -If you don't believe that something will survive it doesn't automatically mean that you believe it won't survive. Yes I know, & always have. My point is that pedants only cause irritation. Friend of mine obtained an MBA. During a meeting with myself & another businessman ,whilst discussing our respective companies, he broke into 'MBA speak'. Now all three of us were MDs of our respective company's & had been for years. The other man there was hugely successful,far more than my friend & I, but neither he, nor I, had a clue what he was on about. Eventually I gently pointed out to him that the purpose of language is to communicate thoughts, ideas, & emotions and that if someone is using 'specialized' language that others don't comprehend then the whole purpose of holding a conversation is lost. In my view you are doing something similar. It appears far more important to you to explain meanings & entomology than to make a specific clear understandable point which can then be commented upon. Up to you of course, free country so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 -If you don't believe that something will survive it doesn't automatically mean that you believe it won't survive. Are you sure about this one. If I don't believe the frog will survive it must automatically follow that I believe it will die (won't survive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Are you sure about this one. If I don't believe the frog will survive it must automatically follow that I believe it will die (won't survive). Absence of belief that the frog will survive doesn't mean you automatically believe it will die. It just means you aren't convinced it will survive. You could believe it has a 50/50 chance for example, or simply not have any belief about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Absence of belief that the frog will survive doesn't mean you automatically believe it will die. It just means you aren't convinced it will survive. You could believe it has a 50/50 chance for example, or simply not have any belief about it. I will have to take your word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Get into the spirit of Christmas, and stop being so flipping nasty. How very interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 A I do not believe this government will survive the next election. I believe the government will not survive the next election. No matter who wins an election the government always gets in so your belief is wrong whichever way you put it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 No matter who wins an election the government always gets in so your belief is wrong whichever way you put it.... Thinking about it, you're quite right. Could this be the cause of all our problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 How very interesting... Well yes, the halo slipped for a moment, could have been worse. That was then, this is now. Have a good Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Yes I know, & always have. My point is that pedants only cause irritation. For someone who "detests" being labelled, you don't half mind labeling others. Some may even find it irritating. Friend of mine obtained an MBA. During a meeting with myself & another businessman ,whilst discussing our respective companies, he broke into 'MBA speak'. Now all three of us were MDs of our respective company's & had been for years. The other man there was hugely successful,far more than my friend & I, but neither he, nor I, had a clue what he was on about. Eventually I gently pointed out to him that the purpose of language is to communicate thoughts, ideas, & emotions and that if someone is using 'specialized' language that others don't comprehend then the whole purpose of holding a conversation is lost. That is the effect you get from people mincing words, using one sentence in place of another, with different meanings, rather than making correct use of language In my view you are doing something similar. It appears far more important to you to explain meanings & entomology than to make a specific clear understandable point which can then be commented upon. If meanings aren't explained, how is a specific, clear and understandable point to be made? The whole reason the explaining began is because the label (detested so much by yourself) you were giving people was based on the wrong meaning. Since that point you've swung between claiming I'm wrong and also admitting that you understand the difference but think it's better to ignore it. There's a word for that, one which MrSmith/Maxmaximus/Angos likes to label people with often. ---------- Post added 21-12-2013 at 23:17 ---------- I will have to take your word for it. You don't have to take my word for it, you can draw your own conclusion on the matter, there's not that much to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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