boyfriday Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Where does Pakistan stand? Not sure of your point, what influence does pakistan have over our electoral system? presumably corruption is rife in pakistan because the system allows it, that doesnt mean we have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Indeed yet I wonder why so much was made of the Pakistanis involved in electoral fraud in the UK when that influence must be equally as miniscule. Perhaps it is because the Pakistani community is the fastest growing in the country and there are now millions? What you need to also keep in mind that not only is their culture more corrupt but it is also less tolerant, plagued by extremism, insular and accustom to settling difference by killing each other. It is the extent of the disfunctionality, coupled with growing numbers, that makes it a particular problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Actually electoral fraud is a big deal but as it involves Pakistanis I know you would like to play it down and sweep it under the carpet. I can see no reason why fraud involving rigging a number of seats would be considered miniscule other than by you. General Elections have been decided on less. It appears you didnt understand the post you were responding to. ---------- Post added 25-11-2013 at 07:42 ---------- Perhaps it is because the Pakistani community is the fastest growing in the country and there are now millions? What you need to also keep in mind that not only is their culture more corrupt but it is also less tolerant, plagued by extremism, insular and accustom to settling difference by killing each other. It is the extent of the disfunctionality, coupled with growing numbers, that makes it a particular problem. Again, so what if all thats true? The electoral system should be robust enough to prevent all forms of fraud its not rocket science, after all you cant just walk into a bank and withdraw money on anyones account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Again, so what if all thats true? The electoral system should be robust enough to prevent all forms of fraud its not rocket science, after all you cant just walk into a bank and withdraw money on anyones account. It takes time, effort and money to deal with problems and it therefore makes sense to target your efforts to where the main problem is. But if you refuse to acknowledge that a problem is concentrated in a certain area, because it risks a racism accusation, then you have to throw your net wider ad the action becomes either less effectively or needlessly more expensive. You will notice recently that there were discussions on the boards about paying mums to breast feed and that initiative was targeted in ceertain areas. I didn't hear you complaining at people in those areas being singled out and the initiative being targeted at them? So what is the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It takes time, effort and money to deal with problems and it therefore makes sense to target your efforts to where the main problem is. But if you refuse to acknowledge that a problem is concentrated in a certain area, because it risks a racism accusation, then you have to throw your net wider ad the action becomes either less effectively or needlessly more expensive. Grieve himself withdrew his comment about Pakistanis. I suspect it was based more on a knee jerk than any statistical evidence. Pakistanis may well be over represented in the election fraud statistics but given they represent about 1.5% of the population, I'm sure the other 98.5% can account for just as much-in other words it's a problem that needs tackling so no one can cheat the system. My earlier remarks were directed at Happ Hazzard's wise comment-corruption exists in British society, but in the scheme of things we're not as bad as most countries so we should keep it in perspective. Pakistanis might have a propensity to defrauding election results, however how many constituencies nationally have enough Pakistanis in them to materially affect the result? How many Pakistanis within those constituencies would be interested in influencing the result in the first place? So let's keep it in perspective. Last years by election in Rotherham for Denis MacShane's seat demonstrates the Pakistani influence isn't as powerful as you'd have us believe. An area where Asians are politically active voted in a posh girl from Derbyshire to replace a posh boy who lives in the home counties, despite there being a very strong local shortlist candidate of Pakistani origin who wasnt even put on the shortlist-I wonder how much manipulation went on to get Sarah Champion selected as the candidate. You will notice recently that there were discussions on the boards about paying mums to breast feed and that initiative was targeted in ceertain areas. I didn't hear you complaining at people in those areas being singled out and the initiative being targeted at them? So what is the difference? You didn't hear me complaining because it wasn't something I had any interest in whatsoever. I'll be looking out for your sage contributions in the Knitting Forum in future. Ps Zamo, frankly Im not interested in this 'racism' hair shirt that you wear with such panache. It's a total red herring, if people say something that's racist I've smarter ways of challenging them than sticking my tongue out and calling them one and to be honest in most cases I couldn't give a monkey's if someone wants to be a racist they're perfectly entitled to provided it doesn't affect how I live my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Grieve himself withdrew his comment about Pakistanis. Ps Zamo, frankly Im not interested in this 'racism' hair shirt that you wear with such panache. It's a total red herring, if people say something that's racist I've smarter ways of challenging them than sticking my tongue out and calling them one and to be honest in most cases I couldn't give a monkey's if someone wants to be a racist they're perfectly entitled to provided it doesn't affect how I live my life. Yes, why did he withdraw it? Because he was labelled a racist and because he no doubt came under pressure from within his party to retract his statement and make it go away. Do you really think he changed his mind? My point stands that you only take exception to groups of people being singled out for criticism, or targeted action, if it is a minority group. You try to play the race card without using the word but we can all see it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bourne Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you want to end political corruption in Britain, why don't we start with the jews first? 1) "Dame" Shirley Porter, responsible "the most cynical and callous and indeed the most costly conspiracy of political corruption in this country in the modern age", costing Westminster Council £27 million. 2) Robert Maxwell, who plunders £hundreds of millions from his own companies' pension funds 3) "Baron" Peter "Mandy" Mandelson, twice disgraced politician and "architect" of the New Labour project. 4) "Lord" Michael Levy, architect of the New Labour "cash for honours" scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you want to end political corruption in Britain, why don't we start with the jews first? How about because there are about five times as many people originating from an Islamic culture than the Jewish culture and because Israel was the 39th least corrupt nation out of 174, whilst Pakistan came in at 139th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Sarah Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you want to end political corruption in Britain, why don't we start with the jews first? . I used to think you were funny. You arent. You are an anti Semitic scum bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bourne Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I used to think you were funny. You arent. You are an anti Semitic scum bag. Given that modern-day jews aren't of a semitic background, your comment is factually inaccurate. Keep it up love. ---------- Post added 25-11-2013 at 10:45 ---------- How about because there are about five times as many people originating from an Islamic culture than the Jewish culture and because Israel was the 39th least corrupt nation out of 174, whilst Pakistan came in at 139th? Perhaps there's a large number of Muslims that do lots of small, corrupt things, and there's a small number of jews that do lots of large, corrupt things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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