The New Moor Market

[999tigger]

So why are there empty stalls and stalls quitting if it isn't a bad deal?

 

1. The empty stalls thing is a mystery. The management say they are fully booked, but they would seem to be inneficient if they have several years to open and they cant get everyone ready in time. They may or may not be telling the truth. People get suspicious when they dont see the new stalls opeing even after four months.

 

That said sorting out finance, solicitors approving documents etc takes time.

 

be good if the market management answered such questions.

 

2. Why are people quitting? In short they arent making enough money as they must have gotten their business plan wrong or in addition the footfall isnt as strong. Such stalls still have overheads like staff wages and the service costs to pay. Some stalls failed to find the correct niche. the rent free period is to give them the chance to try it out.

[salsafan]

Rent and service charge at Crystal Peaks is typically £1000 per 100 square feet less at Crystal Peaks.It is probably quite right to point out that folk with cars like to take them when they do their shopping. I called at Sainsburys this morning and the car park was rammed, as were the trolleys of those shopping there. I'm at a loss to come up with any reason why a person who owned a car would choose to park it hundreds of metres from where they shop, pay for the privilege of doing so and then stagger back in the pouring rain with 30 kilos of shopping bursting out of carrier bags when you can park in an undercover car park and use the store lift to get their loaded trolley to their car in the dry.

 

Incidentally Crystal Peaks has a very large FREE car park.

 

In a way this is shopper's mentality isn't it ? They just want an integrated service. Even John Lewis in the city centre is now more customer conscious and is offering free delivery to their customer's home or to even arrange a collection at the end of the day. This is what I would also want too. Not to drag around my goods a lot, even though I do some of this sometimes, but my preferences is also to have an easy trip.

 

This is obviously because the times are changing and we do not have to work so hard both in our working times and in our leisure time too.

 

That is why I think in some ways, the city centre planning or the services, or the options can indeed be made better if they were more integrated. So for example, why isn't the market making use of other possible technology and integration to sell itself to begin with ? Why not have a trolley at the beginning of the door and let people take it around the place and then drop it off at a collection point at one end of the market, so when they come to drive their car round the back, then they can load it all in for example ? Or to even offer some kind of delivery option when the customer is back home. e.g. I go and order food and goods during my lunch hour. When I get home, it is delivered, and I can carry on cooking asap.

 

The advantage of the market is that the food is that bit fresher. That is their main selling advantage. Or their ability to get some unique goods, which are only available in small quantities, whereas bigger supermarket at least need a minimum of X amount of units. This is whereby the local market can top off the other supermarket chains by offering unique, local and sustainable items this way.

 

Why are certain supermarkets now growing well ? When they squeezed out the specialist butchers, or the specialist fish mongers, they recreated this back in their own stores. So if there is a need for these kind of shops, then why shouldn't these shops be brought back into existence as independents ? It tells me that people go for quality each time.

[BoroB]

Then it looks like the management are telling porky pies - there were empty stalls when it opened in November and there still are 15 weeks later in March.

 

It also looks like some failed stall holders were seduced by councils predictions about what the market would be able to deliver.

[T 42]

what is T42's argument in that he just doesnt like the market?

 

I hope the market succeeds and thrives, camt see any point in talking it down especially if you dont even shop there. The stallholders are bound to complain about rents, but then they were artificially subsidised in the castle market anyway, so a return to normal prices will be a bit of a shock.

 

Six months rent free and then six months half price isnt a bad deal.

 

Did I say that I didn't like the market? NO.

 

It is a nice building, but you must try to differentiate between someone mentioning empty stalls, high prices, inconvenience etc etc with not liking the place. That is the attitude of the council. They try to tell folks that they want to use buses, walk for miles etc etc. Unfortunately in the real world consumers have the whip hand and can shop elsewhere.

So you and SSC can bury your heads in the sand or face up to the facts. There are empty stall despite the nice new surroundings and 6 months free rent. Do you think paying £32,000 each year for a stall will encourage folks to sign up when they wouldn't sign up when it was free? Because my view is that a few who already have stall will pull out when the charges hit rather than more arrive just in time to pay the rent.

[999tigger]

Then it looks like the management are telling porky pies - there were empty stalls when it opened in November and there still are 15 weeks later in March.

 

It also looks like some failed stall holders were seduced by councils predictions about what the market would be able to deliver.

 

Lot more than 15, more in the mid twenties. We dont know what their business plan is.

 

It could be some stall holders may have been optimistic themselves. To be fair some stalls have done better than expected. see what its like in 3 years. I am surpised how busy places like the nailbars and hairdressers are.

[cuttsie]

Lot more than 15, more in the mid twenties. We dont know what their business plan is.

 

It could be some stall holders may have been optimistic themselves. To be fair some stalls have done better than expected. see what its like in 3 years. I am surpised how busy places like the nailbars and hairdressers are.

Same as they were in the Castle Market ,It was just a 60 or is it 70 million cheaper venue.

[T 42]

The advantage of the market is that the food is that bit fresher. That is their main selling advantage. Or their ability to get some unique goods, which are only available in small quantities, whereas bigger supermarket at least need a minimum of X amount of units. This is whereby the local market can top off the other supermarket chains by offering unique, local and sustainable items this way.

 

Why are certain supermarkets now growing well ? When they squeezed out the specialist butchers, or the specialist fish mongers, they recreated this back in their own stores. So if there is a need for these kind of shops, then why shouldn't these shops be brought back into existence as independents ? It tells me that people go for quality each time.

 

Why would it be fresher. Can a trader in Sheffield market get his bananas from Grenada any quicker than Corkers or Sainsbury? I don't think so.

 

Like you say a grocer, butcher, baker could set up a stall in a supermarket and offer perceived fresher goods if that were the case. At least that would offer a car park and a convenient way of getting your goods home.

 

---------- Post added 08-03-2014 at 14:04 ----------

 

I am surpised how busy places like the nailbars and hairdressers are.

 

I suppose you don't have to hump nails or a hair cut back to a car in dirty great heavy bags.

Edited March 8, 2014 by T 42

[999tigger]

Same as they were in the Castle Market ,It was just a 60 or is it 70 million cheaper venue.

 

Cuttsie you are silly. The whole bottom floor was deserted. the Old market was losing an estimated £1m a year and it was getting worse. have you thought about breaking back in and reopening the market as a squatter?

[BoroB]

Lot more than 15, more in the mid twenties. We dont know what their business plan is.

 

It could be some stall holders may have been optimistic themselves. To be fair some stalls have done better than expected. see what its like in 3 years. I am surpised how busy places like the nailbars and hairdressers are.

 

Market opened 25th November so nowhere near to mid twenties yet (November 1 week, Dec and Jan 4.5 weeks each, 4 in Feb and 1 in March).

 

An earlier post mentioned that the market had to operate with 95% occupancy in order to be a success. Empty stalls would indicate that it is not a success at the moment. If it's got empty stalls when there are discounted rents I'd wager there'll be empty stalls in three years time with full rents being charged.

 

I agree that some stallholders may have been optimistic but how much of this optimism came from the council itself?

 

Predicting a full stall take up (and still maintaining they are fully booked when clearly they aren't) is misleading and probably influenced some people to take up stalls. I'd argue that the council painted an over optimistic view rather than being honest.

[999tigger]

Market opened 25th November so nowhere near to mid twenties yet (November 1 week, Dec and Jan 4.5 weeks each, 4 in Feb and 1 in March).

 

An earlier post mentioned that the market had to operate with 95% occupancy in order to be a success. Empty stalls would indicate that it is not a success at the moment. If it's got empty stalls when there are discounted rents I'd wager there'll be empty stalls in three years time with full rents being charged.

 

I agree that some stallholders may have been optimistic but how much of this optimism came from the council itself?

 

Predicting a full stall take up (and still maintaining they are fully booked when clearly they aren't) is misleading and probably influenced some people to take up stalls. I'd argue that the council painted an over optimistic view rather than being honest.

 

1. Sorry I misread your earlier post. I thought you were referring to empty stalls and not weeks since opening.

2. Think it will be my post that made the 95% occupancy rate. It may be the 95% occupancy rate is expected to be hit x years after opening. I'd have to see the documents and business plan.

3. Any planner worth their salt would prepare on the basis of events that would be foreseeable. That means they would know a clear picture could not be formed till some time past the opening date. Most new businesses take 3-5 years to establish themselves. there are always costs associated with opening a new business.

 

We simply dont know whats happened about the take up and whether market management are telling the truth, its them and not really the council.