The New Moor Market

[Scabbydog]

I would expect the Castle Market to still be incurring costs even though it is empty - there will be at least insurance and security costs, maybe business rates and probably more expenses too until it is demolished.

 

With regards to the new market I would hope that the reduced income for the first year was taken into account by the council when they did their calculations.

 

Even so I bet the council are disappointed with the low occupancy and this could cause a problem if it continues as expected income will reduce the cash available to repay the loan/loan interest. The shortfall would either have to be added to the existing loan or be met by increasing rents/service charges, thus making the market less attractive to stallholders.

 

It is interesting to compare rents and service charges between the new Moor Market, and the new indoor market hall in Chesterfield Market

 

Cost of a 200 square foot retail unit.

 

Rent

Sheffield £8400/pa

Chesterfield £2691/pa

 

Annual service charge

Sheffield £7600/pa

Chesterfield £4320/pa

 

Total cost

 

Sheffield £16000/pa

Chesterfield £7011/pa

 

There is also a retail SHOP available in Chesterfield Market. This is a proper shop with shop frontage onto the outdoor market place. It is just under 200 square feet internal size but of course has a frontage. Total price rent plus service charge £6810/pa.

 

The outdoor stalls at Chesterfield are way cheaper still.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Scabbydog

[999tigger]

I would expect the Castle Market to still be incurring costs even though it is empty - there will be at least insurance and security costs, maybe business rates and probably more expenses too until it is demolished.

 

With regards to the new market I would hope that the reduced income for the first year was taken into account by the council when they did their calculations.

 

Youd have to see the business plan and what assumptions they make. Any reasonable project manager would be making plans with a variety of scenarios. The question is on what basis the accountants and advisors have catered for the establishment of the market in the first 3-5 years. That information is something I dont think is available? For all we know they could have calculated no income for the next two years.

 

Even so I bet the council are disappointed with the low occupancy and this could cause a problem if it continues as expected income will reduce the cash available to repay the loan/loan interest. The shortfall would either have to be added to the existing loan or be met by increasing rents/service charges, thus making the market less attractive to stallholders

 

Yes to disappointed and the excuse they have a waiting list doesnt seem to match up to the remaining vacant stalls. It breaks the idea of believing what they have to say and poor PR. The idea of just getting traders in on short term deals to fill the place up should be considered although that can upset the apple cart with existing traders.

 

We still dont know what their business plan and assumptions were though.

 

I think the stallholders will try and go for an extension of rent free and discounted periods or walk. Maybe Sunday opening or longer hours at the weekend?As the project is 60 years, then they must have some wiggle room with Scottish Widows as to repayments. The Uni is doing a belated survey on increasing footfall, but the only things on the horizon are:

Recovering economy.

Establishment of market in new place.

Relocation of Primark and Wilko. Wouldnt understimate the amount of extra footfall from Primark.

Building and opening of the complex on the new construction site, but I think thats 2016.

 

I hope they get some brains in there and make it a success.

[ECCOnoob]

It is interesting to compare rents and service charges between the new Moor Market, and the new indoor market hall in Chesterfield Market

 

Cost of a 200 square foot retail unit.

 

Rent

Sheffield £8400/pa

Chesterfield £2691/pa

 

Annual service charge

Sheffield £7600/pa

Chesterfield £4320/pa

 

Total cost

 

Sheffield £16000/pa

Chesterfield £7011/pa

 

There is also a retail SHOP available in Chesterfield Market. This is a proper shop with shop frontage onto the outdoor market place. It is just under 200 square feet internal size but of course has a frontage. Total price rent plus service charge £6810/pa.

 

The outdoor stalls at Chesterfield are way cheaper still.

 

Ok so rents are cheaper in Chesterfield - a small town as compared to a rent in the heart of a major retail development in the fifth biggest city in the country.

 

I dont really know what you are getting at. That's like saying why are rents cheaper at Crystal Peaks than the are in Meadowhall.

 

Land is more expensive in Central Sheffield thus rental value is more expensive. Potential foothall is much higher in Central Sheffield. Sheffield has a brand new multi million pound market hall right in the middle of what will become the new anchor retail centre. Chesterfield does not.

[cuttsie]

Youd have to see the business plan and what assumptions they make. Any reasonable project manager would be making plans with a variety of scenarios. The question is on what basis the accountants and advisors have catered for the establishment of the market in the first 3-5 years. That information is something I dont think is available? For all we know they could have calculated no income for the next two years.

 

 

 

Yes to disappointed and the excuse they have a waiting list doesnt seem to match up to the remaining vacant stalls. It breaks the idea of believing what they have to say and poor PR. The idea of just getting traders in on short term deals to fill the place up should be considered although that can upset the apple cart with existing traders.

 

We still dont know what their business plan and assumptions were though.

 

I think the stallholders will try and go for an extension of rent free and discounted periods or walk. Maybe Sunday opening or longer hours at the weekend?As the project is 60 years, then they must have some wiggle room with Scottish Widows as to repayments. The Uni is doing a belated survey on increasing footfall, but the only things on the horizon are:

Recovering economy.

Establishment of market in new place.

Relocation of Primark and Wilko. Wouldnt understimate the amount of extra footfall from Primark.

Building and opening of the complex on the new construction site, but I think thats 2016.

 

I hope they get some brains in there and make it a success.

You seem to be changing stance a little Trigger.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2014 at 11:38 ----------

 

Ok so rents are cheaper in Chesterfield - a small town as compared to a rent in the heart of a major retail development in the fifth biggest city in the country.

 

I dont really know what you are getting at. That's like saying why are rents cheaper at Crystal Peaks than the are in Meadowhall.

 

Land is more expensive in Central Sheffield thus rental value is more expensive. Potential foothall is much higher in Central Sheffield. Sheffield has a brand new multi million pound market hall right in the middle of what will become the new anchor retail centre. Chesterfield does not.

The new Market is not in the Centre.

[999tigger]

Not really.

 

Its very difficult to define centre as Sheffield in having a linear retail area. Still not hard to call it part of the city centre or central Sheffield as ecco said. From the bit you quited Cuttsie I can only see him say central and not centre. the hostorice centre of Sheffield would be the own Hall I think. Are you suggesting unless its on the Town hall site then it is not central?

[cuttsie]

Not really.

 

Its very difficult to define centre as Sheffield in having a linear retail area. Still not hard to call it part of the city centre or central Sheffield as ecco said. From the bit you quited Cuttsie I can only see him say central and not centre. the hostorice centre of Sheffield would be the own Hall I think. Are you suggesting unless its on the Town hall site then it is not central?

When is the centre not the centre.

That is the question.

[999tigger]

But he said central and was correct.

[BoyFromSmoke]

Its a horrible characterless effigy of what 'The market' used to be. I dont like it at all.

[Scabbydog]

Ok so rents are cheaper in Chesterfield - a small town as compared to a rent in the heart of a major retail development in the fifth biggest city in the country.

 

I dont really know what you are getting at. That's like saying why are rents cheaper at Crystal Peaks than the are in Meadowhall.

 

Land is more expensive in Central Sheffield thus rental value is more expensive. Potential foothall is much higher in Central Sheffield. Sheffield has a brand new multi million pound market hall right in the middle of what will become the new anchor retail centre. Chesterfield does not.

 

Well actually I don't agree with you there. Sheffield may well be the fifth largest city in the UK but it has one of the lowest footfalls of any major city and comes bottom of the list when it comes to visitor spending.

Chesterfield market is crammed with customers whereas Sheffield Market is falling well below the predicted levels. So a stall in Chesterfield Market makes a great deal of sense. Just to get things in perspective on a 200 square foot pitch you need to make an extra £9000 profit on your sales before you break even compared to a similar stall in Chesterfield. It is a discount the traders can pass on to their customers. Add to that free parking and it gets my vote every time.

[T 42]

A market any where in the World is a public meeting place.

A place where folk gather to converse , meet and trade.

It is usually in a central location and in some cases the buildings are old , smelly and neglected.

 

This is not detriment to a good market as the main function is that people will be able to offer and buy the goods on display at a fair price due to the low overheads involved in Market trading.

What Sheffield planners and councillors have managed to achieve is the very opposite of that tradition .

 

They have done this before on numerous occasions but it seems that at the end of the day all they are interested in is lets change it for change sake syndrome and without fail that policy has cost this City millions.

 

---------- Post added 27-04-2014 at 18:57 ----------

 

 

There are still signs scattered around the City encouraging shoppers to visit CASTLE MARKET.

I will be having a wonder down Exchange Street tomorrow to show a bit of support to the poor sods who have been left to trade there , out on a limb and with no support whatsoever from the caring council.

 

Interestingly enough the old Castle Market was getting around 60,000 visitors a week up until about a year ago when stalls started shutting and folk pulling out in preparation for the new market on the Moor. The council of course promised 100,000 visitors a week at the new site. But this has already dropped off to 60,000. The same numbers are now visiting the Moor Market as were visiting Castle Market. It is just that the costa have increased significantly.

 

I drove down from Leeds yesterday. As you approach Meadowhall there is a huge brown sight instructing folk this is the exit for Don Valley Stadium.

Edited April 29, 2014 by T 42