The New Moor Market

[cuttsie]

Maybe so...

 

... but not when the roof needs replacing, surely?

 

You do the roof in sections worked on many jobs that used the method it is very simple really.

[999tigger]

Perhaps a million ,maybe two although nowt like the sixty plus million the white Elephant at Moorfoot will cost.

 

 

Actually the cost was c£12m and that was without addressing the major faults within the building or costing in the expense of relocating the market during any refurbishment.

 

If you could have done it for £1m cuttsie then you should have made a tender. You could even have added a few million for yourself.

 

You say you have friends in the market, you say you want it to succeed, but you dont miss an opportunity to talk it down and slag it off.

[cuttsie]

Its not exactly the same is it? Your house isn't really comparable to the market building

Big buildings, little buildings, High buildings, Bungalows the same method is used for all.

 

---------- Post added 31-05-2014 at 17:16 ----------

 

Just a reminder:

 

In 2013, before the move, the Star was reporting footfall at Castle Market down to 45000 a week:

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/business/sheffield-market-footfall-down-by-almost-a-quarter-1-6092281

 

Of course that was in the context of some stalls shutting.

 

In the years before that, footfall was falling.

 

The idea that Castle Market was getting footfall of 70000 a week is incorrect. The new location is getting higher footfall than Castle Market was, but it's nowhere near as high as was wanted.

 

The Moor was getting higher footfall than the Castle area. So the logic was that by moving the market, they would be in an area of higher footfall, which the market would pick up.

 

The question is whether the demographic that used to use the Castle Market would continue to use the market in its new location (many would, but probably not all), and whether the new location would draw in new customers (probably some, but maybe not as many as expected). So if it's not drawing in new customers to boost numbers (and I don't know whether any analysis exist of that), is the answer to change the nature of the retailers? And if you do that, do you lose some existing custom? You probably do.

 

If the market had stayed in the Castle area, it would have continued to decline, I think that's clear. But simply moving the market has not been the whole answer, that's also clear. My point is that there are no easy answers.

The figures are wrong up to four years ago the Castle Market was getting 80,000 per week and only in the last 12 months when traders started pulling out due to the impending move did figures drop.

 

---------- Post added 31-05-2014 at 17:20 ----------

 

It would be possible to do. most things are if you throw enough money at them. Youd really need the engineers and architects to tell you how they might do it.

 

The issues are. Cost. Cuttsie is always simple in his understanding that things cost money or if he has to consider the practical implications of doing something.

 

Is there really the space to have moved the rest of the market including all the butchers and fishmongers down to the basement area?

 

Would the builders really have sufficient access?

 

Would the public still have kept going in the same numbers?

 

Perhaps they could have hired cuttsie to run the market outside on the open air stalls?

Stop picking on me Trigger I am only replying to posts and not individuals who I may or may not agree with ,try it you may find it helps.

[Andy]

They also need to rethink what they sell, opening hours, internet ordering and marketing.

 

They do, but the stall holders need to take some responsibility too and not just moan about the council. I am reading this thread and seeing lots of people saying the Market is rubbish. If I was planning on going shopping and hadn't been to the market before I might decide to go somewhere else instead, based on what people have written here.

 

Some of these negative comments are initiated by stall holders. Instead they should be shouting about how much better the new market is to encourage customers to visit. And you're right, they should be looking at what they sell, the opening hours etc to see if they are still fit for purpose. They should be promoting the fact that they are well served by buses and that there's a special deal on car parking.

 

People also need to accept reality. The markets have moved. Castle Market is not coming back. The choice now is whether Sheffield make the new markets a success or a failure. The council cannot do this, it needs the people of Sheffield to support their local traders and stop slagging off their city.

 

If the Moor is so poorly served by public transport how has Atkinsons, which seems to appeal mainly to pensioners managed to keep trading for so long?

[cuttsie]

Thank you for restoring some sanity to the thread and pointing out there are no easy answers. Castle market just like Sheaf market was failing. Many of the stalls(mostly non food) that moved will have to close because imo they always had limited business potential. The question is can the new market hang on long enough till the Moor is redeveloped with new businesses and both Wilko and Primark moving there plus can they replace the failed businesses with other stalls that the people in that area will want to buy from? Examples would be many of the stalls that sell on the continental markets they host on Fargate. They have a good core of food stalls, but the non food section or large parts of it I think let the place down. I cant say im impressed with how they have thought it out and planned the layout.

 

They also need to rethink what they sell, opening hours, internet ordering and marketing.

If they then still cant attract enough business then the question has to be asked does Sheffield need a market if the public wont shop there in sufficient numbers? this might be five years down the line. You should also be considering whether the stall holders should be subsidised with council tax money and by how much? If not and they cnat make a profit then you might be better off closing the market down and selling the building.

Where about's on the Moor are Wilkinson's moving to ,just curious [i know I have already asked you once this week]

 

---------- Post added 31-05-2014 at 17:26 ----------

 

Actually the cost was c£12m and that was without addressing the major faults within the building or costing in the expense of relocating the market during any refurbishment.

 

If you could have done it for £1m cuttsie then you should have made a tender. You could even have added a few million for yourself.

 

You say you have friends in the market, you say you want it to succeed, but you dont miss an opportunity to talk it down and slag it off.

And your source is?

[bazjea]

Where about's on the Moor are Wilkinson's moving to ,just curious [i know I have already asked you once this week]

 

---------- Post added 31-05-2014 at 17:26 ----------

 

"And your source is?

Actually the cost was c£12m and that was without addressing the major faults within the building or costing in the expense of relocating the market during any refubishment"

Here you are.

It was estimated to cost over £8 million back in 2002

 

 

Report of the Executive Director, Development, Environment and Leisure

Cabinet Report 8th March 2006

CITY CENTRE INDOOR MARKET PROVISION

Edited May 31, 2014 by bazjea

[T 42]

 

You say you have friends in the market, you say you want it to succeed, but you dont miss an opportunity to talk it down and slag it off.

 

And you never miss an opportunity to gloss over the facts and try to pretend everything is fine when clearly it isn't. A few weeks ago a Korean Ferry sank with huge loss of life. The tragedy was that the captain kept telling passengers that everything was fine and they should stay in their cabins. The result was that when the ship capsized most passengers were trapped below decks and drowned even though they had 90 minutes to abandon ship. Sometimes it pays to face up to the truth.

 

---------- Post added 31-05-2014 at 18:07 ----------

 

If the Moor is so poorly served by public transport how has Atkinsons, which seems to appeal mainly to pensioners managed to keep trading for so long?

 

I'm thinking that Atkinsons store was build around 60 years ago when the Moor was a vibrant place with through traffic and without the Manpower Services building blocking access from one end. With Atkinson's store approaching the end of its life the important question is where will they build any replacement. It seems folk on here seem to think refurbishing an existing building whist it is in use is impossible, so where do you think they will move?

[Speckled Hen]

It appears that you've completely missed the point of my post!

 

While I agree that it may be possible to re-roof the market while traders and the public are happily going about their business unaware of any potential risks overhead, my point was that it is extremely unlikely that the council and health & safety would have allowed it to happen.

 

(sorry - we don't appear to have a sneering smiley)

 

There's far less risks than putting up scafolding on the outside of buildings and expecting the public to walk under it whilst workmen were working above. I saw a car hit by a chunk of masonery just off Division Street a few weeks back from just such an operation.

 

There is no issue with refurbing a roof. You build a plank floor under the roof and the work is done from there. But as the old market building was half empty it might have been even easier to just shift folk for the few weeks that the work would taken or even done the work at night.

Either way it might be something they might have to consider. They could get the roof done now. I can see the new market hitting the skids, but it is a very nice building that could be put to good use if the traders all have to move back to Castle Market.

[discodown]

Big buildings, little buildings, High buildings, Bungalows the same method is used for all.

No, no it isn't. You don't use the same method to replace the roof of a bungalow as you do to replace the roof of an industrial building or a cathedral or a shopping centre

[cuttsie]

No, no it isn't. You don't use the same method to replace the roof of a bungalow as you do to replace the roof of an industrial building or a cathedral or a shopping centre

Il'e get mi coat.