The New Moor Market

[999tigger]

You guys can believe what ever you like. I don't count my chickens before they hatch. There is far more bull poop around than top end retailers in this city. I won't be buying a cinema season ticket before I see folks queuing for the opening night.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2014 at 00:08 ----------

 

 

So!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hammersons are building in a few more cities than Scottish Widdows.

 

Yes ofc and the earth is flat. You are just making yourself look silly. the point andy was making is that the Light cinema that is being built, which you seem to disbelieve is being financed by Scottish Widows who manage billions of £. They are seperate and different entities from Hammersons, therefore no idea why you are mentioning Sevenstones because the cinema is to be built on the Moor .

 

The fact Hammerstones are building in a number of other places is irrelevant. They arent building in sheffield and have been such poor partners on sevenstones they have been sacked.

 

The Moor projects are much more to do with Scottish Widows alone. They already have tenants, the buildings already been knocked down etc and the site just needs final clearance before building starts. If you dont think its going to happen that's up to you, but then you probably believe the earth is flat as well. Enjoy playing with your chickens and poop.

[Se7enhills]

I said a few dozens posts ago that this isnt a real rpelacement for the old CM, It seems to have been done in a way that lets people think that is the case (probably to keep the typical Sheffielder quiet) but it looks for all the world like a move to the upmarket modern market that amy actually serve what people want...hence putting it at the better ( ) end of town.

[999tigger]

I said a few dozens posts ago that this isnt a real rpelacement for the old CM, It seems to have been done in a way that lets people think that is the case (probably to keep the typical Sheffielder quiet) but it looks for all the world like a move to the upmarket modern market that amy actually serve what people want...hence putting it at the better ( ) end of town.

 

The first bit is a good point. Peoples views are so entrenced to their version of what a market is, be that from the 1850s , 1970s or from over a 1000 years ago.

 

The traditional markets have declined and been mostly abandoned by the sheffield public as a way of shopping. Supermarkets being much the preferred choice. What's in the new place is merely the rump of the remaining castle market stalls. It should be clear to some of those owners that in their current location they are not selling much because there is much more competition. Some of them will quit, go elsewhere or shut shop. What they are looking for are traders who have something unque to offer that the public want to buy. The food stalls in general are faring a lot better.

 

Funnily enough the nail bar hairdressers and photographers always seem very busy. The internals of the market and the way its organised are very poor. For that you have to look at market management and the architects.

[cuttsie]

Cuttsie is desperate for it to fail. He isnt as far forward as the 1920s knock another hundred years off. His solution was just £115,000 an he'd have set CM to rights with a lot of emulsion paint.

 

Cuttsie likes a good old moan about the city centre and then he likes a good old moan about when anyone spends any money to develop a site which brings in jobs and investment.

If you can point out to every one where I have ever said I hope the Moor Market will fail I will pay £100 to a charity of your choice.

 

Care to reciprocate ??.

 

By the way still waiting for info on Wilco's move to the Moor, care to give source?

 

But I will inform you that Woolworths [the building that you said Wilko's are moving into ]is being ear marked for a very different operation ,as I told you my daughter is part of a team working on this project.

Edited June 10, 2014 by cuttsie

[shilling]

Yes ofc and the earth is flat. You are just making yourself look silly. the point andy was making is that the Light cinema that is being built, which you seem to disbelieve is being financed by Scottish Widows who manage billions of £. They are seperate and different entities from Hammersons, therefore no idea why you are mentioning Sevenstones because the cinema is to be built on the Moor .

 

The fact Hammerstones are building in a number of other places is irrelevant. They arent building in sheffield and have been such poor partners on sevenstones they have been sacked.

 

The Moor projects are much more to do with Scottish Widows alone. They already have tenants, the buildings already been knocked down etc and the site just needs final clearance before building starts. If you dont think its going to happen that's up to you, but then you probably believe the earth is flat as well. Enjoy playing with your chickens and poop.

 

Ah yes. The man trying desperately to make excuses for the Moor fiasco now trying to say folks who don't accept his irrelevant point of view are silly.

 

Hey wake up and smell the coffee. Scottish Widdows are a pension company not builders. They are one of these financial institutions that your like loves to hate. They are the guys who cracked off the duff loans that ruined the country. I realise you are having to clutch at straws on this one but at least clutch at a straw that has roots.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/sep/10/scottish-widows-funds-worst-performers

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10456993/Scottish-Widows-secretly-moves-billions-into-dud-funds.html

 

Back to square 1. I'll believe it when I see it. The backers pulled out of Sevenstones for a reason. That reason hasn't gone away no matter how much you wish it had.

Edited June 10, 2014 by shilling

[damo]

But I will inform you that Woolworths [the building that you said Wilko's are moving into ]is being ear marked for a very different operation ,as I told you my daughter is part of a team working on this project.

 

 

Wilko will more than likely take a unit on The Moor as they'd be stupid to stay where they are. I would wager they'd take a unit on the front of the market.

 

The old Woolworths is becoming a pop up theatre I presume you've told your daughter how bad an idea this is as it's in your words "the arse end of town" and how it's not traditionally an area where theatres are in this city therefore what are they thinking?

[999tigger]

Ah yes. The man trying desperately to make excuses for the Moor fiasco now trying to say folks who don't accept his irrelevant point of view are silly.

 

Hey wake up and smell the coffee. Scottish Widdows are a pension company not builders. They are one of these financial institutions that your like loves to hate. They are the guys who cracked off the duff loans that ruined the country. I realise you are having to clutch at straws on this one but at least clutch at a straw that has roots.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/sep/10/scottish-widows-funds-worst-performers

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10456993/Scottish-Widows-secretly-moves-billions-into-dud-funds.html

 

Back to square 1. I'll believe it when I see it. The backers pulled out of Sevenstones for a reason. That reason hasn't gone away no matter how much you wish it had.

 

Your point was you didnt believe the cinema was going to be built and then you cited sevenstones.

 

My point was that they are completely different developers, different locations, different people different situations, that the development work for the cinema is on schedule and they already have tenants lined up. I dont see any reasonable reason to think why the development on that site will not happen.

 

You talk about a Moor fiasco what do you mean by that? The Moor has been run down over the last 30 years, just like most of the city centre. The major reasons for that have been, recession, local economic decline, changes in shopping trends i.e use of cars, internet, meadowhall, which has meant a lack of investment.

 

Not sure how you call the progress of time and a recession a fiasco?

 

You talk about 'your like', care to clarify?

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2014 at 09:38 ----------

 

Oh cuttsie dont be so shy. All you ever do is bang on about CM and slate the new one. It has some problems and challenges, but you cant seem to drag yourself awat from the fact that it has moved from your beloved castle market site of a thousand years. You never propose anything positive or show any understanding of the issues at hand or admit that times have changed and people shop in different ways. It was the folk of Sheffield who deserted the market style of shopping, such that they closed Sheaf market and half or more of CM was also closed. Your sole and most telling answer has been "I told you so".

 

If you had the remotest interest in the survival of the market, then amongst your many posts on the subject why not admit it has been built and propose some positive suggestions. You never do because you are too eager to blame the council, call it a white elephant or whatever other derogatory remarks you can make about it and bang on about the doom you foresee. You just couldnt face up to the fact that major repairs costing over £12m were needed for CM. They were losing shedloads of money, that people shopped elsewhere and the place was a dump. It was a completely unviable business at the CM site, unless as you think it should be subsidised.

 

Now if a person keeps banging on about all the negatives , the past, proposes nothing positive and gleefully calls doom all the time, its not unreasonable to take the view you want it to fail because you sure havent said anything constructive, other than you could have solved CMs problems with some emulsion paint. Plenty of other people have come up with reasonable suggestions or discussed the issues, such as the ones who want free car parking, longer hours, better access, different products.

 

My view as someone who used CM regularly, Sheaf market before that and now the new market, then I 100% want the market to succeed, because it can be good for Sheffield.

It cant and wont be the type of market you like, it will have to have new stalls and many of the existing ones will go out of business because they dont offer what people want to buy. It will either find its feet in the next 3-5 years when the Moor as a whole is redeveloped or not. If it does no then the people will lose their jobs it will break up and the site will be sold to retail who think they can make a go of it. In that case Sheffield will have no market.

 

You moan about Sheffield and the city centre and then when someone comes along to invest money you moan about that as well. I noticed you have started moaning about the peace gardens and the redevelopment there. I'm all for that and think its been an improvement over the eggbox, plis its brought jobs and money to that area as well as the Winter gardens.

 

As for Sheffield and the Haymarket. It will be nice when they knock the old castle market down because the whole area is a mess. Sheffield has long suffered from a long thin line of retail rather than a concentration and that has worked to its disadvantage. Times change.

Many of the reatilers in Haymarket will want to move as they are already much quieter and they will really feel it when Primark goes. This includes Wilko who are already looking at relocating to the Moor because what they want is to make money. No customers = no chance of profit. When businesses move they need to find new premises and that will mean negotiating with the LL or SW if they want a site developing for them. They dont announce it until terms are agreed. Unlike you I think Wilko knows the outlook for Haymarket is grim, so if you think they are going to just stay and die then you are rather naive.

Edited June 10, 2014 by 999tigger

[shilling]

Your point was you didnt believe the cinema was going to be built and then you cited sevenstones.

 

My point was that they are completely different developers, different locations, different people different situations, that the development work for the cinema is on schedule and they already have tenants lined up. I dont see any reasonable reason to think why the development on that site will not happen.

 

You talk about a Moor fiasco what do you mean by that? The Moor has been run down over the last 30 years, just like most of the city centre. The major reasons for that have been, recession, local economic decline, changes in shopping trends i.e use of cars, internet, meadowhall, which has meant a lack of investment.

 

Not sure how you call the progress of time and a recession a fiasco?

 

 

 

 

Firstly Scottish Widdows isn't a developer. They are a pensions company that buy land in the hope of making a return. They will need a developer to build any project and folks prepared to take on the stores and units they have planned. It won't go ahead without those folk on board.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something. The recession started 6 years ago. The Moor has been getting more & more run down for 30 years. Why?

Who made that decision. The council are in charge and there was a massive boom for at least 20 of those 30 years. The Moor became run down despite a financial boom because it was no longer an attractive place for department stores to put up expensive stores. That is why Sevenstones didn't go ahead and why the council are now planning more massive debt to finance a development with no guarantee that anyone will want to move into it.

That is also the main reason Sheffield Market moved to the Moor. It is because no one else other than pound shops wanted too. It was a desperate measure and judging by the footfall at the expensive new built market, one that isn't working.

As others have pointed out you can trace the decline of The Moor as a shopping street back to the day they built MPS across it.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2014 at 10:12 ----------

 

]Oh cuttsie dont be so shy. All you ever do is bang on about CM and slate the new one.

 

But you seem to spend your waking day doing precisely the opposite. What is your motive for deffending the failures?

Edited June 10, 2014 by shilling

[Blackbeard]

Firstly Scottish Widdows isn't a developer. They are a pensions company that buy land in the hope of making a return. They will need a developer to build any project and folks prepared to take on the stores and units they have planned. It won't go ahead without those folk on board.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something. The recession started 6 years ago. The Moor has been getting more & more run down for 30 years. Why?

 

You are right, the "Global Recession" started about 6 years ago but the Sheffield recession started many years ago with the closure of the steel works and the mines throwing many people out of work.

How are the decisions made on where to build new developments?

Decision makers look at the areas and decide if they can make money, as simple as that. They use many tools to make that decision including social media and sites like Sheffield Forum. Probably that is why we have so many betting shops, fast food and sandwich shops, loan shops and pawn brokers, Poundland, Wilco's etc. they sense the needs of the locals.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Blackbeard

[999tigger]

You are right, the "Global Recession" started about 6 years ago but the Sheffield recession started many years ago with the closure of the steel works and the mines throwing many people out of work.

How are the decisions made on where to build new developments?

Decision makes look at the areas and decide if they can make money, as simple as that. They use many tools to make that decision including social media and sites like Sheffield Forum. Probably that is why we have so many betting shops, fast food and sandwich shops, loan shops and pawn brokers, Poundland, Wilco's etc. they sense the needs of the locals.

 

100% what blackbeard said. Of you know Sheffield then you will know the economy was built on steel caol and heavy industry. that took a massive body blow in the early 80s and it has never replaced those jobs with expansion in other areas. Leeds in contrast developed a booming finacial services sector.

 

The next boom was c1986-89

 

The next recession was about 1990. Sheffield had not recovered by then and made the decision to open Meadowhall, which menat the available money went there instead of the city centre. There is not enough money to support a city centre and meadowhall.

 

The next boom was c1998-2002

 

The next recession has been during the financial crisis, so agree something like six years ago.

 

What happens in the national and international economy has far more influence on whether people have jobs and thus money to spend than anything the council do. Investors are just interested where they cna make money. If the city is booming, then it means people have money to spend and shops are more likely to come.How cant people see that the development of the city centre has everything to do with how prosperous our local economy is. Unfortunately we are still a long way behind other cities. The one area that we are quite good at is education. id rather have had high tech industries or a financial services sector, but its still one of our strengths. Still hasnt replaced the heavy industry jobs though.

 

In the recessions Sheffield has fared badly and in the booms Sheffield has been one of the last to see the benefits. It's sad, but thats what has happened.