The New Moor Market

[alchresearch]

You are right, the "Global Recession" started about 6 years ago but the Sheffield recession started many years ago with the closure of the steel works and the mines throwing many people out of work.

 

You could argue that the Liverpool recession started when slavery ended, or the Manchester recession started when the cotton trade died or the Newcastle recession started with the decline of the coal and shipbuilding industries.

 

The difference is that these cities did something about it and have city centres to be proud of. And retail developments continued in Leeds and Liverpool during the recent recession. Have a look at Hammersons projects that continued while the Sheffield one ground to a halt:

 

http://www.hammerson.com/property/shopping-centres/victoria-quarter/

http://www.hammerson.com/property/developments/

http://www.hammerson.com/property/developments/victoria-gate-leeds/

http://www.cnplus.co.uk/news/sectors/retail/april-start-for-hammersons-150m-leeds-shopping-centre/8660061.article#.U5bXZHYvA0E

 

If wasn't so long back that The Moor was a thriving shopping centre. It certainly wasn't as long ago as 30 years like someone claimed.

Edited June 10, 2014 by alchresearch
added Hammersons links

[999tigger]

 

If wasn't so long back that The Moor was a thriving shopping centre. It certainly wasn't as long ago as 30 years like someone claimed.

 

I said it was the start of the decline. It wasnt that great in 84/85, but it really became noticeable once meadowhall opened and that was 1990. It hit the rest of the city centre as well. Surely everyone can remember that?

 

If Hammersons felt there was massive profits to be made in sheffield they would have invested quickly. They didnt. thats to do with our economy being so poor.

Edited June 10, 2014 by 999tigger

[shilling]

You could argue that the Liverpool recession started when slavery ended, or the Manchester recession started when the cotton trade died or the Newcastle recession started with the decline of the coal and shipbuilding industries.

 

The difference is that these cities did something about it and have city centres to be proud of. And retail developments continued in Leeds and Liverpool during the recent recession. Have a look at Hammersons projects that continued while the Sheffield one ground to a halt:

 

 

Sheffield council would rather blame Thatcher for all the worlds ills and wallow in dereliction than actually admit that strikes and industrial disputes drove businesses away from Sheffield. The rest of the country has moved on a prospered. Sheffield is still fighting the miners strike.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2014 at 11:09 ----------

 

I said it was the start of the decline. It wasnt that great in 84/85, but it really became noticeable once meadowhall opened and that was 1990. It hit the rest of the city centre as well. Surely everyone can remember that?

 

If Hammersons felt there was massive profits to be made in sheffield they would have invested quickly. They didnt. thats to do with our economy being so poor.

 

Why did all the retailers invest in stores in Meadowhall and so many pull out of Sheffield? Meadowhall was a result of Sheffield's city centre decline as much as the cause of it.

[alchresearch]

Why did all the retailers invest in stores in Meadowhall and so many pull out of Sheffield? Meadowhall was a result of Sheffield's city centre decline as much as the cause of it.

 

Excellent point. And why hasn't a decline been to blame for the death of Manchester or Newcastle city centre shopping and their proximity to their big shopping centres Trafford and Metro centre on the edge of town?

[shilling]

Excellent point. And why hasn't a decline been to blame for the death of Manchester or Newcastle city centre shopping and their proximity to their big shopping centres Trafford and Metro centre on the edge of town?

 

There was a time when Liverpool was a basket case. Over a 25 year period the city got a grip and did something about it. Fortunately they hadn't flattened all their historic buildings and they formed part of the revival. The city is alive at night and the docks and Liverpool 1 are both a showcase and tourist attractions. We regularly take weekend breaks in Liverpool for the craic. The bars in the centre buzz with trade and places like the Phil are impossible to get in some nights.

Contrast Liverpool docks area with the fiasco that was the restoration of the canal basin in Sheffield. God only knows how much money was spent to create an innaccesible place where folks store unwanted narrow boats.

[cuttsie]

Your point was you didnt believe the cinema was going to be built and then you cited sevenstones.

 

My point was that they are completely different developers, different locations, different people different situations, that the development work for the cinema is on schedule and they already have tenants lined up. I dont see any reasonable reason to think why the development on that site will not happen.

 

You talk about a Moor fiasco what do you mean by that? The Moor has been run down over the last 30 years, just like most of the city centre. The major reasons for that have been, recession, local economic decline, changes in shopping trends i.e use of cars, internet, meadowhall, which has meant a lack of investment.

 

Not sure how you call the progress of time and a recession a fiasco?

 

You talk about 'your like', care to clarify?

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2014 at 09:38 ----------

 

Oh cuttsie dont be so shy. All you ever do is bang on about CM and slate the new one. It has some problems and challenges, but you cant seem to drag yourself awat from the fact that it has moved from your beloved castle market site of a thousand years. You never propose anything positive or show any understanding of the issues at hand or admit that times have changed and people shop in different ways. It was the folk of Sheffield who deserted the market style of shopping, such that they closed Sheaf market and half or more of CM was also closed. Your sole and most telling answer has been "I told you so".

 

If you had the remotest interest in the survival of the market, then amongst your many posts on the subject why not admit it has been built and propose some positive suggestions. You never do because you are too eager to blame the council, call it a white elephant or whatever other derogatory remarks you can make about it and bang on about the doom you foresee. You just couldnt face up to the fact that major repairs costing over £12m were needed for CM. They were losing shedloads of money, that people shopped elsewhere and the place was a dump. It was a completely unviable business at the CM site, unless as you think it should be subsidised.

 

Now if a person keeps banging on about all the negatives , the past, proposes nothing positive and gleefully calls doom all the time, its not unreasonable to take the view you want it to fail because you sure havent said anything constructive, other than you could have solved CMs problems with some emulsion paint. Plenty of other people have come up with reasonable suggestions or discussed the issues, such as the ones who want free car parking, longer hours, better access, different products.

 

My view as someone who used CM regularly, Sheaf market before that and now the new market, then I 100% want the market to succeed, because it can be good for Sheffield.

It cant and wont be the type of market you like, it will have to have new stalls and many of the existing ones will go out of business because they dont offer what people want to buy. It will either find its feet in the next 3-5 years when the Moor as a whole is redeveloped or not. If it does no then the people will lose their jobs it will break up and the site will be sold to retail who think they can make a go of it. In that case Sheffield will have no market.

 

You moan about Sheffield and the city centre and then when someone comes along to invest money you moan about that as well. I noticed you have started moaning about the peace gardens and the redevelopment there. I'm all for that and think its been an improvement over the eggbox, plis its brought jobs and money to that area as well as the Winter gardens.

 

As for Sheffield and the Haymarket. It will be nice when they knock the old castle market down because the whole area is a mess. Sheffield has long suffered from a long thin line of retail rather than a concentration and that has worked to its disadvantage. Times change.

Many of the reatilers in Haymarket will want to move as they are already much quieter and they will really feel it when Primark goes. This includes Wilko who are already looking at relocating to the Moor because what they want is to make money. No customers = no chance of profit. When businesses move they need to find new premises and that will mean negotiating with the LL or SW if they want a site developing for them. They dont announce it until terms are agreed. Unlike you I think Wilko knows the outlook for Haymarket is grim, so if you think they are going to just stay and die then you are rather naive.

A very constructive post indeed Trigger written in your Sunday best;)

By the way where have I said I hope the new Market fails and how do you know that Wilco's are looking at relocating to the Moor will that relocation be to the Old Woolworths building or not?

[999tigger]

Excellent point. And why hasn't a decline been to blame for the death of Manchester or Newcastle city centre shopping and their proximity to their big shopping centres Trafford and Metro centre on the edge of town?

 

Because their economies are far more robust than Sheffield's.If theres money to be made then investors, developers and retailers will come. If they dont think the prospects are good enough they wont.

 

Why did all the retailers invest in stores in Meadowhall and so many pull out of Sheffield?

 

Which retailers pulled out of sheffield city centre and went to meadowhall before it opened? i cant remember.

 

You would invest in MH because you thought you could make money and it was too significant not to be there because it had critcial mass.

 

Retailers pulling out after is obvious.

 

 

 

Meadowhall was a result of Sheffield's city centre decline as much as the cause of it.

 

Depends what you mean, there are so many interpretaions to that sentence. If you rephrased it then id probably agree with you. It was obvious what was going to happen and did as soon as it opened. That's the vision that Sykes and Healey had.

[dongle]

Just had a walk around the new market and it was really busy, along with the rest of the moor area in General, the signs have gone up around the new cinema building site boardings giving some info on what's going to be on the site, we opened a new store inside of Atkinsons on the moor 3 months ago and are really pleased with the way things have gone, it can only get better with the redevelopment.

[Jonny5]

Sheffield's hierarchy has nothing to gain from investment. They and their mates keep their well paid jobs no matter what because people keep blindly voting them in.

 

I'm never quite sure though whether SCC are a bunch of scheming crooks or a group of idiots that couldn't run a village jumble sale. Either way we are stuck with them.

[cuttsie]

Sheffield's hierarchy has nothing to gain from investment. They and their mates keep their well paid jobs no matter what because people keep blindly voting them in.

 

I'm never quite sure though whether SCC are a bunch of scheming crooks or a group of idiots that couldn't run a village jumble sale. Either way we are stuck with them.

There is one thing that is certain you never hear the Chief executive or the Council leader come out and comment on any ongoing developments or issues it is always Lee Bramall or some other up and coming Town Planner who makes the statement .

Unless he just likes his photo in the Star that is:)