Eric Arthur Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 The council won't be in default, however if rent is not covering costs of the loan they will fund the loan from other sources. There will be a contingency in the budget to fund this. SW may restructure the loan, they may not I expect after the initial period the council will restructure the debt along with the rest of the council's debt (as with the World Student Games debt) to get the best deal. Where does the contingency come from though? There is no sinking fund for the markets so it will have to come out of other budgets like schools, social services, transport, roads, etc. If the market isn't paying its way it is just a vanity project. Restructuring the debt is a fancy name for a remortgage and just means that a £16m building is used as security forgetting some quick cash to spend on the council's equivalent of a once in a lifetime round the world cruise. Except that it isn't a cruise, it is just everyday services that they always have to pay for and the £16m building ends up costing £160m instead of £45m. I'm not saying that they will do that but that's what your post actually means in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiggs Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Where does the contingency come from though? There is no sinking fund for the markets so it will have to come out of other budgets like schools, social services, transport, roads, etc. If the market isn't paying its way it is just a vanity project. Restructuring the debt is a fancy name for a remortgage and just means that a £16m building is used as security forgetting some quick cash to spend on the council's equivalent of a once in a lifetime round the world cruise. Except that it isn't a cruise, it is just everyday services that they always have to pay for and the £16m building ends up costing £160m instead of £45m. I'm not saying that they will do that but that's what your post actually means in real life. Yes exactly. I suspect that for the first couple of years they expected to run at a loss so budgeted for that but that now if they are unable to finance the loan from rents the costs are coming out of money for other services or putting extra on our council tax bill. However to suggest that the council will go into default is laughable. Edited January 28, 2016 by smiggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Where does the contingency come from though? There is no sinking fund for the markets so it will have to come out of other budgets like schools, social services, transport, roads, etc. If the market isn't paying its way it is just a vanity project. Restructuring the debt is a fancy name for a remortgage and just means that a £16m building is used as security forgetting some quick cash to spend on the council's equivalent of a once in a lifetime round the world cruise. Except that it isn't a cruise, it is just everyday services that they always have to pay for and the £16m building ends up costing £160m instead of £45m. I'm not saying that they will do that but that's what your post actually means in real life. Paul Scriven explained it to the Star in 2010 http://www.thestar.co.uk/what-s-on/out-and-about/163-63m-bill-for-sheffield-s-new-moor-market-1-1832138 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Paul Scriven explained it to the Star in 2010 http://www.thestar.co.uk/what-s-on/out-and-about/163-63m-bill-for-sheffield-s-new-moor-market-1-1832138 Let's look at what the council's plan is. If 90 per cent of stalls are occupied, the market would make an annual loss of 122,000, totalling 7.32 million over the 60 years, plus a further 15.6 million to cover the sinking fund - adding up to 22.92 million. Does anyone know what the current occupancy is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Let's look at what the council's plan is. Does anyone know what the current occupancy is? The last I heard was the market has had around 75% occupancy of stalls. But we don't know the number who actually paid full rent, partial rent, or no rent at all. ...Or in fact the number who set up, used the facilities for a few months and cleared off having paid no rent at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Just a thought... Presumably a successful market (assuming it is successful) has a value to Sheffield, as a whole, which is outside the whole issue of what it costs and what rents they receive. If it makes Sheffield more of a target for visitors who might only spend a small amount in the market itself, but go on to spend on the Moor or somewhere else in Sheffield, then it could still be worthwhile. Is such value (assuming it can be measured) ever included when evaluating the financial viability of the market. I'm reminded of the recent announcement of how much the organisers of the Yorkshire leg of the Tour de France overspent, and in effect "lost", because they have no associated income. This failed to acknowledge that some businesses made extra profit, but as that is not available to offset directly against the organisers' costs, the organisers appeared at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiggs Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Just a thought... Presumably a successful market (assuming it is successful) has a value to Sheffield, as a whole, which is outside the whole issue of what it costs and what rents they receive. If it makes Sheffield more of a target for visitors who might only spend a small amount in the market itself, but go on to spend on the Moor or somewhere else in Sheffield, then it could still be worthwhile. Is such value (assuming it can be measured) ever included when evaluating the financial viability of the market. I'm reminded of the recent announcement of how much the organisers of the Yorkshire leg of the Tour de France overspent, and in effect "lost", because they have no associated income. This failed to acknowledge that some businesses made extra profit, but as that is not available to offset directly against the organisers' costs, the organisers appeared at fault. They have to be working on the assumption that some sort of loss is acceptable - if the ultimate aim is for the Market to pay it's own way without loss banking on 100% occupancy of the market seems a little crazy - not that is anything new for Sheffield council but even still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apelike Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Some latest news.. http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/moor-market-traders-in-sheffield-to-move-to-fargate-for-a-month-1-7712180 Seems like this end of town is more popular with shoppers than the market is, makes one wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Some latest news.. http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/moor-market-traders-in-sheffield-to-move-to-fargate-for-a-month-1-7712180 Seems like this end of town is more popular with shoppers than the market is, makes one wonder why? You couldn't make this stuff up! Market traders in Sheffield will be setting up new stalls on Fargate in the city centre to showcase what the Moor Market has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 You couldn't make this stuff up! Market traders in Sheffield will be setting up new stalls on Fargate in the city centre to showcase what the Moor Market has to offer. The sad thing is that you can. I think everyone knew that locating the market at the bottom of the Moor was an appalling planning decision. Everyone that is other than SCC and few pom-pom wielding SCC shills on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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