PeteMorris Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Can I just remind people. Petty bickering will not be allowed. Where a poster quotes another bickering post, then it will be removed along with the or original post. Its nothing personal. It's just how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pessimistic1 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Was WW1 both an exercise in population control and also an excuse to create a league of nations, the forerunner to the united nations? Not really. ...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Here's what you said: "they did their duty so that you... can say they died for pretty much nothing" I said "Nonsense. World War 1 was not fought for my or anyone else's freedom. That morons like you believe that lie is exactly the problem caused by the jingoistic stupidity pointed out by the OP." Perhaps you could make a response that doesn't completely move the goalposts and sticks to the original assertion of yours that I scoffed at? I disagree, countries were being invaded and annexed by an aggressor. The right of those countries to self govern and self determination was being taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I disagree, countries were being invaded and annexed by an aggressor. The right of those countries to self govern and self determination was being taken away. Not strictly true. In my opinion the only reason to wage war is to gain or retain freedom. The first World War was fought between the great powers of Europe for strategic & economic advantage & had little to do with anyone's freedom. Most, if not all, of the monarchies of Europe were interrelated. Queen Victoria married her first cousin the German Prince Albert for instance. Whilst I appreciate she died 13 years before the war, her nine children had intermarried with the crowned heads of Europe. This was basically a 'domestic' that cost millions of lives because of the nonsense which is Monarchy & the stupidity which is patriotic jingoism. The seeds of the Second War were sown in the railway carriage in the forest of Compiegne. Marshal Ferdinand Foch Field Marshal of France -appointed British Field Marshal in 1919 & Polish Field Marshal in 1923 - was quite a soldier - there's a statue of him outside Victoria station in London. He was overall commander of the allies in WW1 but should not have been allowed to oversee the armistice agreement. He set out to humiliate & damage Germany as much as possible. That resulted in the ultimate rise of Hitler, & off we went again. Until the ordinary man & woman learns to think for themselves, & understands that they are being played for fools, used for the continuation & increase of power & wealth for the few, then this nonsense will happen again. As for the fallen of WW1 I have nothing but respect & sorrow. Given the circumstances, given the way things were, & the world they were born into can any of us say we would have acted differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I don't think it has anything to do with the glorification of war. It's about learning and remembering why it happened and that it should never happen again. If we didn't have memorials children wouldn't be able to ask what are they for? Thereby learning about war and the suffering and death that goes with it. For me it's a reminder of the millions that have died in wars world wide and to remember not just the dead but comrades that have survived horrific injuries and those suffering unseen horrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Until the ordinary man & woman learns to think for themselves, & understands that they are being played for fools, used for the continuation & increase of power & wealth for the few, then this nonsense will happen again. I absolutely 100% agree. Sadly, too many people are fooled, do not think, hold patriotism to be a virtue. If you try to open their eyes, they brand you a traitor or a coward... Yes, you would be a traitor of sorts, to your 'country', but they are far worse, they are traitors to the whole of humankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marx Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 It's reassuring to see that others share my views. If Governments didn't instill patriotism, there would be no foot soldiers to fight their wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Patriotism: good. Nationalism: not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Patriotism: good. Nationalism: not so good. Actually the exact opposite could be argued. Nationalism if taken at it's most basic, is simply the identification with a particular nation. Patriotism on the other hand is a support - usually unqualified - of the decisions & actions of the state. As all states from time to time make bad, & sometimes catastrophic decisions, blindly defending them in a 'My Country right or wrong' fashion - which is what a lot of Patriotism tends to be about - is nonsense in my view. As ever it all comes down to a question of degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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