Anna Glypta Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 He did say mix traffic MAIN LINE to be fair. The tube and DLR are neither mixed nor main line. And the thread is about jobs that are automation proof ...as in the future so I fail to see your point unless you are of the view that it is not possible to develop driverless trains when they already have them on the underground and we have planes that can land themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm hoping drones (the square ones with 4 fans) will develop into flying cars within my lifetime or my children's lifetime. Progress is getting faster all the time. They've been promising flying cars since the 1950s. Technically they've been feasible, assuming the driver is also a qualified pilot, but not economically feasible. Whilst an automatic pilot could feasibly replace a human one now, the other cost issues haven't been solved. That's before you get to regulatory issues. In short - don't hold your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Glypta Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 DLR is a closed system running at no more than 25mph with single use traffic. It is incomparable with a heavily used mixed traffic, mixed speed system (ie the UK mainline.) Automation of a single use, closed system (regardless of speed) is fairly straight forward. When you throw slow heavy freight, fast intermodal freight, high speed passenger and slow speed commuter into the mix, all using the same tracks, junctions, stations etc then it becomes a lot trickier. The technology isn't there and it isn't being planned any time soon. Not to mention the cost to convert the main line to accept driverless trains, which would be astronomical and would dwarf any future cost savings from drivers wages. Both systems above and the Victoria line are enclosed and single use. As I have said, that is relatively straight forward and nothing unusual. Show me a mixed use main line which is driverless, or where retrofitting stock (at huge cost by the way) is being planned. It isn't happening. As I mentioned, the next generation signalling system being rolled out over the coming decades is designed around the driver. Incedentally, the Victoria line isn't actually driverless, it is just automated. I do, however, accept that the underground is almost certainly where we will see the first conversion from driven stock to driverless at some point in the future. So you mean like this then. http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/freight/single-view/view/rio-tinto-to-introduce-driverless-trains-by-2014.html AUSTRALIA: Rio Tinto confirmed on February 20 that driverless trains would begin running on its Hamersley and Robe River iron ore network in Western Australia’s Pilbara region during 2014, under an A$518m investment package which forms part of the group’s ‘Mine of the Future’ strategy. Rio Tinto is currently investing A$14bn over five years to expand its iron ore production from 225 million tonnes per annum to 353 mtpa by 2015. The AutoHaul programme to be completed in 2015 is expected to increase rail throughput significantly, shortening journey times by eliminating stops for crew changes, and reducing energy consumption and CO2; emissions through more efficient operation. Having awarded an A$103m contract to Ansaldo STS in December 2008, Rio Tinto conducted experiments with driverless trains the following year, but the project was put on hold during the economic downturn. The company signed an A$467m five-year framework contract with Ansaldo STS in November 2010 and exercised the A$96m first tranche in April 2011. This also covers introduction of Electronically Controlled Pneumatic braking, as well as modernisation of signalling, train control and communications systems. At present the 1 500 km rail network operates around 300 trains a week, using a fleet of 148 locomotives and 9 400 wagons to move 630 000 tonnes of ore a day. Each train is typically 2·4 km long, with a loaded weight of 30 000 tonnes and a top speed of 75 km/h. Chief Executive, Australia & Iron Ore, Sam Walsh said ‘Rio Tinto is leading the way in large-scale use of automation, with plans to deploy 150 driverless trucks and our plans for AutoHaul. Expanding Pilbara iron ore production is a high-return and low-risk investment that will enhance shareholder value. Automation will help us meet our expansion targets in a safe, more efficient and cost-effective way.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Sampson Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Yes, exactly like that. A closed, single use system. It is on a larger scale but the same principle applies: No other companies, especially passenger ones, use the lines. I accept that automation will eventually lead to driverless trains one day in the future, but it isn't on the cards for the UK anytime soon (which was the original point I challenged.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Yes, exactly like that. A closed, single use system. It is on a larger scale but the same principle applies: No other companies, especially passenger ones, use the lines. I accept that automation will eventually lead to driverless trains one day in the future, but it isn't on the cards for the UK anytime soon (which was the original point I challenged.) Can I suggest you try a trip on the DLR tube line at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I don't know how old you are, but it hardly matters ... I don't think in anyone on here's lifetime we'll see flying lorries (and I don't mean because they'll have a Klingon cloaking device on either!) [/QU I'm hoping drones (the square ones with 4 fans) will develop into flying cars within my lifetime or my children's lifetime. Progress is getting faster all the time. Harry Potter's flying Ford Anglia's been around for some time ... but you probably mean something more like this. (Apologies for it being a DM link ... first one I came to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 And the thread is about jobs that are automation proof ...as in the future so I fail to see your point unless you are of the view that it is not possible to develop driverless trains when they already have them on the underground and we have planes that can land themselves. It's obviously possible, but probably not in the next 50 years due to the massive investment it would require and the minimum benefit we would gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Sampson Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Can I suggest you try a trip on the DLR tube line at some point? I already answered the point about DLR, it is quoted in post 63. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessoo Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Getting back to original question, Hairdressing, cutting and general styling will be automation proof for some time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 The UK will become a land of layabouts just like the unions have been planning for the last 60 years. What do you mean by this statement and in what way would this benefit anybody who has a mortgage and family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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