esme Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I believe you mentioned revolution first, and no matter what your intent I do not believe you would be able to prevent it turning violent. You say innocents are being hurt anyway, yes they are and those who are hurting them need to be brought to account. However if you start a revolution then anyone who is hurt because of it is very firmly your responsibility and you would need to be brought to account. Two wrongs don't make a right. There is no procedure for replacing parliament with a different system that doesn't involve either a civil war or working within the system to change it i.e. becoming or influencing politicians, take your pick those are your only options. A proper democratic referendum held parish by parish may establish that the people want a particular thing but it would not force the government to give it to them. And I believe a vote of no confidence can only be called by the party in power unless they lose some key vote by a huge margin that means their own MP's are voting against the whips then I think the opposition can call for one. This was one of the threats the Conservative hard liners made to get proportional representation removed from the options in the referendum for changing the voting system. At the end of the day the MP's are in charge not us and the system is set up to ensure it stays that way, for example they just voted themselves a huge payrise, they didn't need it, I sure didn't want them to have it and I let them know by every means I had and so did a lot of other people, it's made no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 I believe you mentioned revolution first, and no matter what your intent I do not believe you would be able to prevent it turning violent. As far as I recall, all I did was put it in as one of the poll options... You say innocents are being hurt anyway, yes they are and those who are hurting them need to be brought to account. However if you start a revolution then anyone who is hurt because of it is very firmly your responsibility and you would need to be brought to account. Two wrongs don't make a right... A proper democratic referendum held parish by parish may establish that the people want a particular thing but it would not force the government to give it to them. OK, so what you are saying is that if I inspire people to call a proper democratic referendum across the nation and that clearly shows that the overwhelming majority want a fundamental change, and the government refuse to step aside, then the people hurt in the ensuing riots are my fault? Fine. If that happens, then I'll hand myself in to the Intentional Criminal Court... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 No I'm saying if you call for revolt then you are responsible for the fall out If you sort out a parish by parish referendum and the government ignore the result then they would be responsible. Anytime you want to set up the parish referendum thing let me know as I'd like to vote in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 No I'm saying if you call for revolt then you are responsible for the fall out If you sort out a parish by parish referendum and the government ignore the result then they would be responsible. You are presenting this as a dichotomy. I am calling for a revolt by way of national parish referenda... Anytime you want to set up the parish referendum thing let me know as I'd like to vote in it It is not my place to call a referendum in your parish, and it seems a little futile for me to call one in mine unless there is at least some indication that others will follow suit... Ideally, it would be good to coordinate a series of parish referenda across Sheffield. Perhaps we might also want a confidence vote in our council. If only there was some mechanism by which we could discuss an idea across the city... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Something like a forum on the internet perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Something like a forum on the internet perhaps Something like that yes... Problem is, it seems there is only you and me that are still interested here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Noticed that last time we chatted on this too, little bit more interest because of the election but not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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