Overlooked Mandella's opinions on the USA and Israel

[Harleyman]

We all had it worked out 10 years ago, everyone I ever spoke to said it was about oil and could not see why 911 invoked the bombing of Iraq.

 

Hey, that must mean we are all as great as Mandela then if the assumption is that only a great mind could suss all that out

 

Saddam had threatened Bush senior with death and may have even thought of hatching a plot to carry it out. Bush junior's reason for finishing Saddam was payback and he and his advisors probaly thought that Saddam should have been finished off during the first Gulf war so they decided to do the job themselves. That was one reason

 

Oil? Why would America need Iraqi oil? It's all domestically produced or imported from Canada and Venezuela. Not much comes from the middle east and if war broke out there it would cause no shaortage here but of course the price per gallon would go way up since that's always the case when profits and speculation are involved.

 

I can understand though that the UK, Europe, Japan and China totally rely on middle east oil so maybe it was Blair who really put Bush up to invading Iraq which would have been reason number two

[mjw47]

Iraq's oil reserves are the third largest in the world. As US troops advanced toward Baghdad in 2003 they were instructed to secure oil facilities as they went.

 

When Baghdad was taken, an orgy of looting broke out. Donald Rumsfeld dismissed any need to take steps to prevent it. Only one major building in Baghdad was thought important enough to be guarded by American troops, that was the Oil Ministry.

 

Contracts have been put in place which guarantee American oil companies 75% of Iraqi oil profits for the next 30 years.

 

Having said which I have to agree that it wasn't ALL about the oil.

 

Halliburton, the company that Dick Cheney is a former CEO of has secured major contracts - together with other American construction companies - to rebuild the devastation caused by the extensive bombing.

 

Were it not for the small detail of thousands of unnecessary deaths, you could almost admire the operation.

 

The military ordinance companies sell multi billions of dollars worth of material, which requires replenishing, thus making billions.

The American oil companies get their hands on a competitors assets worth billions.

The American construction industry receives contracts worth billions.

 

The British get some crumbs from the rich mans table, mainly in the form of 'security' contracts.

 

Whats not to like? Everyone's a winner!

 

Obviously if your going to be picky & pedantic about it, there's all those dead & maimed people, & all those who have had their lives ruined & lost their loved ones & their homes as a result of this major business opportunity, sorry, I meant righteous & just war fought for democracy & freedom.

[Harleyman]

Iraq's oil reserves are the third largest in the world. As US troops advanced toward Baghdad in 2003 they were instructed to secure oil facilities as they went.

 

When Baghdad was taken, an orgy of looting broke out. Donald Rumsfeld dismissed any need to take steps to prevent it. Only one major building in Baghdad was thought important enough to be guarded by American troops, that was the Oil Ministry.

 

Contracts have been put in place which guarantee American oil companies 75% of Iraqi oil profits for the next 30 years.

 

Having said which I have to agree that it wasn't ALL about the oil.

 

Halliburton, the company that Dick Cheney is a former CEO of has secured major contracts - together with other American construction companies - to rebuild the devastation caused by the extensive bombing.

 

Were it not for the small detail of thousands of unnecessary deaths, you could almost admire the operation.

 

The military ordinance companies sell multi billions of dollars worth of material, which requires replenishing, thus making billions.

The American oil companies get their hands on a competitors assets worth billions.

The American construction industry receives contracts worth billions.

 

The British get some crumbs from the rich mans table, mainly in the form of 'security' contracts.

 

Whats not to like? Everyone's a winner!

 

Obviously if your going to be picky & pedantic about it, there's all those dead & maimed people, & all those who have had their lives ruined & lost their loved ones & their homes as a result of this major business opportunity, sorry, I meant righteous & just war fought for democracy & freedom.

 

If the US had gone in, knocked off Saddam and then pulled ot leaving total chaos behind then the Chinese would have moved in and done exactly what the Americans did in th form of obtaining lucrative contracts for oil and construction. Today Iraq would have been near enough a middle eastern Chinese satellite and make no mistake about the Chinese. They are smart, entrepreneural and far removed from the Americans when it comes to generosity or bothering much about attempting (at least) in establishing democracy among a society who never knew what the word democracy meant in the first place So who would you have preferred to be the Big Dog in that part of the world?

 

You seem to never be able to grasp the fact that the deaths and mayhem that have taken place in Iraq since the Americans withdrew has all been down to ancient sectarian rivalries. Iraq was a country cobbled together by British colonial rulers who gave little thought when doing this that there were rivalries and hatreds among various Arab tribes that had existed for centuries. Iraq was a political basket case from day one

 

Mandela who deserves the recognition for what he achieved for black South Africans appears to be similar to JFK in that he's also reached mythological status in some ways. It's forgotten that he was once a member of a militant group named Umkhonto We Sizwe which was associated with the Communist Party and dedicated to overthrowing the South African givernment by force and or violence. People must have been killed but why bother about all that. Like Kennedy his past is as pure as the riven snow

[angos]

Iraq's oil reserves are the third largest in the world. As US troops advanced toward Baghdad in 2003 they were instructed to secure oil facilities as they went.

 

 

Could that be because when the Iraqi army retreated from Kuwait they set fire to over 600 of the country's oil wells.

 

Iraq torches seven oil wells

[Mr Clowning]

I know this is taking a skewed direction from the topic but whats new on SF,

 

My understanding from an Iraqi Kurd who moved here was that the CIA convinced Sadam to invade Kuwait, when they were buddies, so that it would make him stronger in the region with his larger oil reserves and stop the Saudis messing with the world price of oil buy holding off production (maybe I stated that incorrect, but it was to do with world oil prices). Anyhow the Saudis went ape **** about it and demanded the US correct their error or they were going to stop exports of their oil reserves (again Im not sure on this but it was a threat to do with oil prices), so that was it, the US had to go in and drag Sadam out. That was Gulf war one which started off all the mistrust and Sadam was no longer tenable then to be the counter balance to Iran which was why they were buddies to start with.

 

I know I'm wrong on a lot of what I have just put but according to this Kurdish bloke that was the gist of it.

[Halibut]

I know this is taking a skewed direction from the topic but whats new on SF,

 

My understanding from an Iraqi Kurd who moved here was that the CIA convinced Sadam to invade Kuwait, when they were buddies, so that it would make him stronger in the region with his larger oil reserves and stop the Saudis messing with the world price of oil buy holding off production (maybe I stated that incorrect, but it was to do with world oil prices). Anyhow the Saudis went ape **** about it and demanded the US correct their error or they were going to stop exports of their oil reserves (again Im not sure on this but it was a threat to do with oil prices), so that was it, the US had to go in and drag Sadam out. That was Gulf war one which started off all the mistrust and Sadam was no longer tenable then to be the counter balance to Iran which was why they were buddies to start with.

 

I know I'm wrong on a lot of what I have just put but according to this Kurdish bloke that was the gist of it.

 

's Ok, we're used to it already.

[McDoodle]

[/b]

 

 

More like devious and untrustworthy comes to mind.

 

 

 

Thats a bit racist dont you think?

[mjw47]

Could that be because when the Iraqi army retreated from Kuwait they set fire to over 600 of the country's oil wells.

 

Iraq torches seven oil wells

 

Well yes, then again the Kuwait oil wells were Kuwaiti whilst the Iraqi oil wells were Iraqi.

Either way if the Americans were, as a lot of people believe, after the oil that was the thing to do wasn't it?

 

There is also the point that the Americans couldn't prevent it in Kuwait because the Iraqis were in possession of the oil wells before the Americans arrived, & that was even more so with their own oil wells wasn't it?

[angos]

Well yes, then again the Kuwait oil wells were Kuwaiti whilst the Iraqi oil wells were Iraqi.

Either way if the Americans were, as a lot of people believe, after the oil that was the thing to do wasn't it?

 

There is also the point that the Americans couldn't prevent it in Kuwait because the Iraqis were in possession of the oil wells before the Americans arrived, & that was even more so with their own oil wells wasn't it?

 

So you agree then, it was a sensible policy for US troops to secure oil facilities as they went, hopefully preventing them from being torched by the retreating Iraqi's.

[mjw47]

If the US had gone in, knocked off Saddam and then pulled ot leaving total chaos behind then the Chinese would have moved in and done exactly what the Americans did in th form of obtaining lucrative contracts for oil and construction. Today Iraq would have been near enough a middle eastern Chinese satellite and make no mistake about the Chinese. They are smart, entrepreneural and far removed from the Americans when it comes to generosity or bothering much about attempting (at least) in establishing democracy among a society who never knew what the word democracy meant in the first place So who would you have preferred to be the Big Dog in that part of the world?

 

You seem to never be able to grasp the fact that the deaths and mayhem that have taken place in Iraq since the Americans withdrew has all been down to ancient sectarian rivalries. Iraq was a country cobbled together by British colonial rulers who gave little thought when doing this that there were rivalries and hatreds among various Arab tribes that had existed for centuries. Iraq was a political basket case from day one

 

Mandela who deserves the recognition for what he achieved for black South Africans appears to be similar to JFK in that he's also reached mythological status in some ways. It's forgotten that he was once a member of a militant group named Umkhonto We Sizwe which was associated with the Communist Party and dedicated to overthrowing the South African givernment by force and or violence. People must have been killed but why bother about all that. Like Kennedy his past is as pure as the riven snow

 

Now you're inventing opinions of mine that never existed .

 

I am fully aware that tribal hatred exists in that part of the world & no one is responsible other than the local population.

 

I am also aware that the present borders of Iraq came into existence when some British General sat down with some French General a map, a ruler & a fine bottle(s) of wine & decided to draw lines on the map.

 

No consideration whatsoever was given to tribal areas, ethnic variances or religious differences. Lets face it these people were uncivilized heathens of little consequence, so what could possibly go wrong?

 

But here's the thing, in the same way that Tito was keeping the lid on Yugoslavia ,Saddam was keeping control of Iraq.

 

Were things perfect? Hell no, people in democracies have never had to put up with that crap.

 

On the other hand are things better now? Has the intervention of the west & the removal of Saddam improved the lot of the normal Iraqi?

 

Hell no, it IS total chaos.

 

You suggest two options, American created mayhem, or Chinese tyranny.

 

How about a third option?

 

Why not leave Saddam where he was, but bribe, cajole, threaten & persuade him to act in a way we want?

 

Not dramatic enough for you? True, but on the other hand thousands upon thousands of innocent people, including women & children would still be alive today who are dead in the ground.

 

As to all that Kennedy/ Mandela was a Saint business, give it a rest jarhead .

 

Kennedy was just like the rest of us, a far from perfect human being, still a great man though.

 

Mandela was a terrorist during a part of his life, still a great man though.

 

As another great man Brenden Behan said 'The terrorist is the man with the small bomb'.

 

Government sponsored terrorism, even if looked at individually, Country by country, is responsible for more deaths throughout the world than all the Freedom Fighter/Terrorist groups combined.

 

---------- Post added 09-12-2013 at 23:14 ----------

 

So you agree then, it was a sensible policy for US troops to secure oil facilities as they went, hopefully preventing them from being torched by the retreating Iraqi's.

 

If, as suggested, the Americans were after the oil, it was the ONLY rational policy, wasn't it?