L00b Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I reckon a gulf is bigger than a chasm. I reckon a chasm is deeper than a gulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiteowl Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 To me the problem is not really the amount, compared to industry they are probably worth 74k. It's the timing that's the problem - if the country was booming then I don't think people would care, but it's not so I think it's a bit rich to accept an 11% pay rise whilst others are receiving nothing. After all, we're all in it together aren't we ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I reckon a chasm is deeper than a gulf True. ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Not really To the risk of stating the obvious, but perhaps surprising you, because their skillset commands a rate on the job market, and shareholders willing to pay that rate get the benefit of that skillset. At that level, the only threat worthy of any consideration is that of being sacked by the Board for failing to deliver. Who'd have thought it, huh? Been over all this before, Mecky. I'm surprised you've left out your usual bum-hitting door quip, though Don't hold your breath Didn't need to hold my breath long did I? Does the saying, "Promoting people to their own level of incompetence," mean anything to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Put MPs on the average wage and it becomes a job for the independently wealthy. No-one would do the job for an average wage, it isn't an average job. They deserve a decent wage. I am undecided whether this payrise is justified. I think the whole parliamentary system needs a massive overhaul, it's barely been changed since Victorian times. Er.. Most of the cabinet are already independently wealthy, so no change there... However I agree it all needs a massive overhaul. ---------- Post added 10-12-2013 at 12:37 ---------- I was going to frame a reply to this, but considering the sheer scale of the task, i.e. 'where to begin with this'... ...I just wish you'd spend a day shadowing an MP, before spouting such utter, utter rubbish Where as I wish MPs would spend a day shadowing ordinary citizens doing ordinary jobs to see the effect their 'legislation' has. In case you hadn't noticed this country has serious problems and is fast going down the pan. That is largely down to the incompetence and bad decisions of a succession of governments over the last 50 years. They should take responsibility for it, instead we give them a pay rise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Didn't need to hold my breath long did I?Where have I been crying? Does the saying, "Promoting people to their own level of incompetence," mean anything to you?Yes, it's the well-known Peter principle. This is relevant how, exactly? I mean, aside from entertaining your strawman? Do you have the requisite skillset to be a CEO, Mecky? Where as I wish MPs would spend a day shadowing ordinary citizens doing ordinary jobs to see the effect their 'legislation' has.To my knowledge, most MPs run drop-in clinics to do just that. Admittedly, it's a small aspect of what they do. But then, they have rather a lot to do. And we're digressing, as we're talking about what MPs actually do to earn their keep, your contention being that they do sweet FA, my contention being the complete opposite (based on personal knowledge and experience, in both France and the UK). In case you hadn't noticed this country has serious problems and is fast going down the pan. That is largely down to the incompetence and bad decisions of a succession of governments over the last 50 years.If only it was as simple as that, and countries were run in a vacuum, in complete isolation of international factors, pressures, obligations, competition and such They should take responsibility for it, instead we give them a pay rise!The current lot are trying to. Same as the previous Conservatives lot. In case you hadn't noticed, electoral history and resulting governments in this country (like in very many others) has a nasty tendency to repeat itself: Vote the left in, spend-spend-spend (no bad thing in itself - to an extent) but save nothing for a rainy day. Eventually, crash-bang-wallop. Domestic or international, doesn't matter. The books are very much in the red, the national trousers and the kegs are around the ankles. Vote the right in, save-cut-save-privatise and balance the books (no bad thing in itself - to an extent) but kill most of the social policies and efforts. Rinse-repeat, ad nauseam. And you want to blame the elected lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 In case you hadn't noticed, electoral history and resulting governments in this country (like in very many others) has a nasty tendency to repeat itself: Vote the left in, spend-spend-spend (no bad thing in itself - to an extent) but save nothing for a rainy day. Eventually, crash-bang-wallop. Domestic or international, doesn't matter. The books are very much in the red, the national trousers and the kegs are around the ankles. Vote the right in, save-cut-save-privatise and balance the books (no bad thing in itself - to an extent) but kill most of the social policies and efforts. Rinse-repeat, ad nauseam. And you want to blame the elected lot? Well I voted green so its not my fault. Seriously though if all the main parties are going to perpetuate an endless failure then what choice does the electorate have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Well I voted green so its not my fault.I like the cut of your jibe, Mr taxman Seriously though if all the main parties are going to perpetuate an endless failure then what choice does the electorate have?Short of breaking down the system and rebuilding it afresh, precious little. And even then, a rebuild would be no garantee of future performance - as witnessed in e.g. Communist Russia, wherein the aparatchik system eventually perpetuated the exact same cronyist outcomes. The fundamental issue is not so much the electoral and political system (of which multiple parties is an inherent part) and, as systems go and by international comparison, the UK's is arguably still one of the best. The fundamental issue is the (relatively-) recent "professionalisation" of political players (I mean that in a 'sponsored footballers' kind of way ) and, increasingly, the associated cronyism that pervades high-level government appointments and which, past a certain level, favours broad-base approval rateability over hands-on capability. In an ideal world, every MP, Minister, Government, Mandarin etc. would be of "national utility" caliber, acting at all times in the best interest of the nation regardless of before-/after-appointment associations and consequences and in isolation of personal interests. But we don't live in an ideal world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladesman Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 When compared to the excessive pay being paid to some public sector workers I imagine they do deserve it, for instance the leader of RMBC is paid more than the PM, £155,000, there are many more council employees paid more than MP's. The public sector pay structure is all over the place. MPs get paid less than some and then in vital sectors like people in the NHS get even less. It all needs sorting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Put MPs on the average wage and it becomes a job for the independently wealthy. No-one would do the job for an average wage, it isn't an average job. They deserve a decent wage. I am undecided whether this payrise is justified. I think the whole parliamentary system needs a massive overhaul, it's barely been changed since Victorian times. So the average wage isnt a decent wage? Bet that will go down well with those on minimum wage or even the so called living wage. Do you care to explain to THEM that the average wage is not decent? BTW, as a matter of interest, what IS the average wage? ---------- Post added 10-12-2013 at 18:11 ---------- Why wouldn't they? Isn't the average wage a decent wage as MPs keep telling us? Actually, I think you will find that the MP's view the MINIMUM wage as a decent wage!! ---------- Post added 10-12-2013 at 18:13 ---------- That would depend on what responsibilities, workload, personal stakes and encumbrances go with the job that pays the decent wage. OK, so what ARE the responsibilities of a backbencher? Turning up occasionally to vote the way the whips tell them, cheering or booing dependant on which side is talking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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