Funding the NHS

[llamatron]

Doesn't the 'pasty' tax cover them, as it's hot food so you pay the VAT (or something like that)

 

Anyway I talked to a doctor a little while ago about this and somone had done a review on it, IIRC smokers cost the NHS roughly 2-3 billion quid a year, but they bring in about 5 billion a year in tax on fags.

 

Net profit 2-3 billion quid (although this is money going to the government not the NHS).

 

No the pasty tax is pretty random in what it covers. Also manufacturers spend a lot of time and money getting round these taxes.

 

My suggestion is to give incentives to people to make good choices rather than to punish people that don't and it is more directed because its based on that persons general health not a particular part of what they spend their money on.

[truman]

Thats totally different, I am talking about people that make good lifestyle choices. A lot of sports require extra insurance if they are high risk anyway.

 

It's not totally different at all.. it's costing the NHS to treat these people..... which sports can't you do without taking out insurance first?

[llamatron]

What about people who are disabled, mentally challenged or have a genetic disorder?

 

Do I receive a discount on my NHS payment (what is that btw) because I don't require any extra support???

 

We all pay the same so we can support those in need, thats how it works.

 

we can't afford it though-it is going to change, its just a question of how.

 

---------- Post added 11-12-2013 at 10:34 ----------

 

It's not totally different at all.. it's costing the NHS to treat these people..... which sports can't you do without taking out insurance first?

 

horse riding, rowing, football, skydiving, skiing all require extra insurance if you are part of a proper league. I would assume every official sport requires extra insurance.

 

It is totally different, don't be silly. Smoking 40 fags a day and drinking a bottle of vodka a day are pretty much guaranteed to cause you long term harm.

 

Falling of a horse or breaking your leg playing football are pretty unlikely and will generally be short term problems and irrelevant compared to the long term health benefits of being active.

[psynuk]

A) im pretty sure you didnt read the link as it disagrees with you and i do, cancer treatment is expensive, dementia care is expensive and a lifetime of obesity care is expensive.

 

B) i wasnt claiming that they cost less in nhs care i was simply saying that aiming to be healthy deserves a discount.

 

People that dont make any effort should subsidise heavily the people that do!

 

I read the link,

but your saying that the people who are going to live longer should pay less into the system that is quite likely going to end up supporting them for quite a long and intensive period towards the end of their lives.

 

The idea that you should somehow qualify for a reduced nhs bill (by increasing your burden upon it) is the backwards part.

I suppose they already do get a 'discount' to the tune of at least £5 billion/year.

 

Treating disease directly caused by smoking produces medical bills of more than £5bn a year in the UK."

The figure of £5bn in 2005-06 equates to 5.5% of the entire NHS budget."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8086142.stm

 

In the same year the tax and excise from tobacco was £10 billion

http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/

 

you have to bear in mind that figure is just for tobacco and doesn't consider the aspect of drink and fatty foods but again they often reduce lifespan considerably. but have much more costly side effects.

Nor does it truly consider the cost of healthy life styles and the problems with sports injuries or the dramatic costs with increasing life spans and thus pensions and care bills.

 

 

The reward for eating and living healthy is living healthy and living longer.

[truman]

we can't afford it though-it is going to change, its just a question of how.

 

---------- Post added 11-12-2013 at 10:34 ----------

 

 

horse riding, rowing, football, skydiving, skiing all require extra insurance if you are part of a proper league. I would assume every official sport requires extra insurance.

 

It is totally different, don't be silly. Smoking 40 fags a day and drinking a bottle of vodka a day are pretty much guaranteed to cause you long term harm.

 

Falling of a horse or breaking your leg playing football are pretty unlikely and will generally be short term problems and irrelevant compared to the long term health benefits of being active.

 

Are there many ski-ing leagues in the UK? Your making a lot of assumptions..Does the insurance pay A+E costs for broken limbs...? I used to play rugby ,insurance was included in my subs. but it didn't go to pay any A+E costs.. just compensation to me if I became disabled through an injury collected through playing...what about people who do drink and smoke but also exercise.. where do they fit in on your scale..?

[alchresearch]

From ASH:

 

Cost to society

Research commissioned by ASH in 2010 has shown that the cost to the NHS of treating diseases caused by smoking is approximately £2.7 billion a year. Another study put the estimated cost as high as £5.2 billion.

 

A report by the Policy Exchange in 2010 estimated the total cost to society of smoking to be £13.74 billion. This includes the £2.7bn cost to the NHS but also the loss in productivity from smoking breaks (£2.9bn) and increased absenteeism (£2.5bn). Other costs include: cleaning up cigarette butts (£342 million), the cost of fires (£507m), the loss of economic output from the death of smokers (£4.1bn) and passive smokers (£713m).

 

However, it is also estimated that about £380 million a year is being saved by the

NHS as a result of public health strategies such as the ban on tobacco advertising and the creation of the stop smoking services which have resulted in fewer people smoking

 

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_121.pdf

[GLASGOWOODS]

I think Loobs comment makes more sense. The government/nhs need to get things in order.Lots of uneccessary layers that need dumping. Only this morning on the news it was saying spending on agency nurses was £130mill+ and rising.

 

When my younger brother was a professional boxer (world champ) he paid for private insurance.

He may have even paid a higher level for car insurance. Although i may be wrong.

[Manlinose]

but what about people that eat nothing but chips and do no exercise?

 

at least they're keeping potato farmers in business

[psynuk]

horse riding, rowing, football, skydiving, skiing all require extra insurance if you are part of a proper league. I would assume every official sport requires extra insurance.

 

It is totally different, don't be silly. Smoking 40 fags a day and drinking a bottle of vodka a day are pretty much guaranteed to cause you long term harm.

 

Falling of a horse or breaking your leg playing football are pretty unlikely and will generally be short term problems and irrelevant compared to the long term health benefits of being active.

 

playing sport in a league isn't anything to do with it.

Playing sport or exercising will no doubt improve your health but it will not save the nhs money in comparison to smoking or drinking.

because the nhs is funded by tax not by health.

 

Falling off a horse and breaking your leg is very likely, football not so much.

But the millions of sprains, breaks, tears, stitches ect ect DO cost the NHS millions. all arising from being healthy albeit unfortunate.

 

I know I've cost the nhs plenty through sports and exercise, smoking has cost them nothing (yet) but the future cost will more than likely be offset by the increased tax and the lesser payments of pensions and the chance that I will die at 65 rather than 80.

[geared]

From ASH:

 

Those are very subjective figures tho. As to be expected from an anti-smoking group.

 

Especially stuff like lost output from people taking a smoking break and lost output from smokers death. Those two figures alone make up HALF of their 'estimate'.

 

Are they pushing for a stop to coffee drinking and coffee breaks as well, whats next 5 billion a year lost to toilet breaks :loopy:

 

Estimated tax revenue from tobacco is over 12 billion by the way, thats money going into the governments coffers - not an estimate of money that 'might be lost'.