Anti semetic or anti zionist?

[Supertramp]

People can be anti-Zionist without being a Jew hater. Dieudonne clearly hates Jews.

 

Court convictions[edit]

 

On 14 June 2006, Dieudonné was sentenced to a penalty of 4,500 Euro for defamation after having called a prominent Jewish television presenter a "secret donor of the child-murdering Israeli army".[67]

 

On 15 November 2007, an appellate court sentenced him to a 5,000 Euro fine because he had characterized "the Jews" as "slave traders" after being attacked in his theater le Théâtre de la Main d'Or.[68]

 

On 26 June 2008, he was sentenced in the highest judicial instance to a 7,000 Euro fine for his characterization of Holocaust commemorations as "memorial pornography".[29]

 

On 27 February 2009, he was fined 75,000 Canadian dollars in Montreal for defamatory statements against the singer and actor Patrick Bruel after he called him a "liar" and an "Israeli soldier".[69]

 

On 26 March 2009, Dieudonné was fined a total of 3,000 Euros for defamation after having criticised Elisabeth Schemla, a Jewish journalist who ran the now defunct Proche-Orient.Info website. He declared on 31 May 2005 that the website wanted to "eradicate Dieudonné from the audiovisual landscape" and had said of him that "he's an anti-Semite, he's the son of Hitler, he will exterminate everyone".[70]

 

On 27 October 2009, he was sentenced to a fine of 10,000 Euros for "public insult of people of Jewish faith or origin" related to his show with Robert Faurisson.[71]

 

On 8 June 2010, he was sentenced to a fine of €10,000 for defamation towards the International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism, which he had called "a mafia-like association that organizes censorship".[72]

 

On 10 October 2012, he was fined €887,135 for tax evasion. According to the French revenue service, Dieudonné failed to pay part of his taxes from 1997 to 2009

 

 

 

They're all a bit 'meh' and don't seem very racist to me.

[JFKvsNixon]

So this guy Dieudonne invented this gesture, and he says it is anti-zionist so how can somebody else say it is anti semitism? It's bonkers. I don't usually say PC gone maaaaaaaaaaaddddddddddd, but it really is this time. It's a made up gesture, it can represent whatever someone who made it up says it does.

 

Also when the same comedian makes thinly veiled threats about the hissing of gas chambers towards Jews, I think it's all too clear what the gesture represents.

[Supertramp]

Also when the same comedian makes thinly veiled threats about the hissing of gas chambers towards Jews, I think it's all too clear what the gesture represents.

 

Not read about any threats but how is it clear what the gesture represents? Are you guys reading stuff I'm not?

[Mr Clowning]

Not read about any threats but how is it clear what the gesture represents? Are you guys reading stuff I'm not?

 

If he has form for upsetting Jewish people then it won't matter if there is anything in the gesture he made or not, if they have found offense then he is guilty even if it was wholly innocent.

 

When people run round with their arms stretched out, in a plane like manor, do they think that its a dig at them over Jesus being on the cross or have they missed that one ?

[blake]

People can be anti-Zionist without being a Jew hater.

 

I'm not so sure. Anti Zionism is for me in practice like a euphemism for antisemitism just like antisemitism before it, was a euphemism for Jew-hating.

 

one can criticise the policies of Israel without hating Jews, for sure. Millions of Israelis, themselves, including Jewish ones, do it all the time.

 

but why question the very fact of Israel as a post 1945 national home for the Jewish people, unless you have a bee in your bonnet about Jews? Why does nobody ever do the same about hardly anybody, if anybody else? Why is the notion of nationalism when it comes to Jews, questioned so much, when nobody, or almost nobody, gives it a second thought to hardly anybody else?

[Supertramp]

I'm not so sure. Anti Zionism is for me in practice like a euphemism for antisemitism just like antisemitism before it, was a euphemism for Jew-hating.

 

one can criticise the policies of Israel without hating Jews, for sure. Millions of Israelis, themselves, including Jewish ones, do it all the time.

 

but why question the very fact of Israel as a post 1945 national home for the Jewish people, unless you have a bee in your bonnet about Jews? Why does nobody ever do the same about hardly anybody, if anybody else? Why is the notion of nationalism when it comes to Jews, questioned so much, when nobody, or almost nobody, gives it a second thought to hardly anybody else?

 

So are you saying anyone who questions the behaviour of Israel and the way in which it was created is an anti-semite?

[Mr Clowning]

So are you saying anyone who questions the behaviour of Israel and the way in which it was created is an anti-semite?

 

I think it goes further than that, I think if you question the behavior (especially expansion) or how it was created, your automatically thought of as wanting the destruction of Israel.

 

They are cornering people so as to be free of condemnation for anything by labeling you and seems anything they don't like is an automatic warrant to cry of persecution.

[blake]

So are you saying anyone who questions the behaviour of Israel and the way in which it was created is an anti-semite?

 

see how they can never resist spelling it with a hyphen, even though it only serves to confuse matters. In the German language, from where the word comes, they never do it.

 

the point I'm trying to make is that many people seem, or tend to be selective when it comes to the notion of Jewish nationalism. Kurdish nationalism is fine. Turkish nationalism is fine. Iranian nationalism is fine. Just like the Jews, each of these have historically competed against the dominant Arabs, in the Middle East. English, Scottish, Welsh, Finn, Norwegian and Swiss nationalism, you name it, is also fine.

 

but heaven help us when the Jews get in on it (nationalism) ! How can they have such a nerve!

[Supertramp]

see how they can never resist spelling it with a hyphen, even though it only serves to confuse matters. In the German language, from where the word comes, they never do it.

 

the point I'm trying to make is that many people seem, or tend to be selective when it comes to the notion of Jewish nationalism. Kurdish nationalism is fine. Turkish nationalism is fine. Iranian nationalism is fine. Just like the Jews, each of these have historically competed against the dominant Arabs, in the Middle East. English, Scottish, Welsh, Finn, Norwegian and Swiss nationalism, you name it, is also fine.

 

but heaven help us when the Jews get in on it (nationalism) ! How can they have such a nerve!

 

You're flirting around the question, I don't care if it has a hyphen or not, you seem to hate people using a hyphen as that implies someone hates any semite and hating other semites is OK but god forbid anyone hate jews.

 

Israel is different to any of those mentioned in the way that it was created and the way it acts so why do you expect it to be treated the same?

[blake]

Semites are not people in fact I don't even think there is sch a word as 'semite'. Semitic refers to language groups see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages

 

clearly you do not like the way Israel managed to re-establish itself in the modern era after not being much of a national home for the Jewish people for the 2,000 plus years after it was taken over by foreign colonial powers, including the Arabs, but I'm afraid you will have to stuff that in your pipe and smoke it. Israel is here to stay and it isn't going anywhere.

 

What is of course ironic is that Zionism is the most incredible anti colonial struggle there has ever been, in world history and you would have thought that most leftists, who are always ranting on about how 'anti colonial' they are supposed to be, if they weren't Jew-hating racists, would recognise that. After nearly 2,000 years, the Jewish people finally managed to reclaim their national home.