mjw47 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Britain is a temperate country but that doesn't make my nationality a temperate. Neither does being English (British) make a person a Christian. Neither does being a Christian make someone English. Are you now claiming Christianity is a nationality now as well as Islam? Question, have you ever heard anyone refer to England as a Christian country? A simple yes or no will do. Where exactly did I claim that Islam was a nationality? I referred to Islamic countries. That is a perfectly reasonable description of a country where the main religion is Islam. America classes itself as a Christian country, it doesn't mean all Americans are Christians, simply that the country is run on Christian principles. As already pointed out if you Google 'Islamic countries' you come up with 76 million results. You appear to be claiming that the description is invalid. This makes you look somewhat foolish. Still carry on, your diverting the thread but your amusing me, so no problem. ---------- Post added 05-01-2014 at 14:20 ---------- So if it is OK for muslims to invade other countries why shouldn't other groups have the same right? Before you make such obviously ill thought out posts perhaps you should try using your brain first. It will save you posting things like this load of tripe. Quote: Originally Posted by mjw47 View Post As for Islam being a religion & not a nationality it is of course both, but this has clearly escaped you. Good point, Touche' . That's what comes of posting in between entertaining grandchildren. What I meant to say of course is that there are countries such as Iraq , Saudi Arabia etc which class themselves as Islamic & therefore will conduct their actions according to the tenets of that faith. You have got me somewhat puzzled with your 'temperate' analogy since when has the climate been a race, religion or nationality? ---------- Post added 05-01-2014 at 14:31 ---------- No its comes from the moment Islam was created to counter the growth of Christianity around 600 AD. There isn't a latest, its been on going for the past 1400 years. Why do you believe that something created well before humans walked the earth belongs to any particular group of humans. More than happy with that idea as long as some of them don't come running to us for safety. We were are target well before Bush, Blair & assorted corporate interests. Remind me how many Islamic terror attacks were carried out in Europe or America prior to 1990. Genuine question, I have no idea but it seems to me that what is taking place now has been initiated by our involvement in their affairs. At no time in the 60s 70s or 80s did anyone give a thought to Islam. As to land not belonging to the people who occupied it for time immemorial spoken like a true Imperialist. Does that apply to England? No problems with someone rolling up & laying claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Glypta Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Remind me how many Islamic terror attacks were carried out in Europe or America prior to 1990. Genuine question, I have no idea but it seems to me that what is taking place now has been initiated by our involvement in their affairs. At no time in the 60s 70s or 80s did anyone give a thought to Islam. http://history1900s.about.com/od/famouscrimesscandals/p/munichmassacre.htm The Munich Massacre was a terrorist attack during the 1972 Olympic Games. Eight Palestinian terrorists killed two members of the Israeli Olympic team and then took nine others hostage. The situation was ended by a huge gunfight that left five of the terrorists and all of the nine hostages dead. Following the massacre, the Israeli government organized a retaliation against Black September, called Operation Wrath of God. 27 July 1980 – Antwerp, Belgium. Syrian Palestinian Said Al Nasr threw two hand grenades into a group of Jewish children waiting for a bus. 1 dead, 20 injured. 29 August 1981 – 1981 Vienna synagogue attack in Vienna, Austria, was attacked by Palestinian gunmen. 2 dead, 30 wounded Will that do as a starter? ---------- Post added 05-01-2014 at 17:23 ---------- Where exactly did I claim that Islam was a nationality? Always happy to help. Originally Posted by mjw47 View Post As for Islam being a religion & not a nationality it is of course both, but this has clearly escaped you. I'll type this next bit slowly for the hard of understanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 http://history1900s.about.com/od/famouscrimesscandals/p/munichmassacre.htm Three, compared to the Holocaust (carried out by Christians) and all the other wars carried out by Western governments in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas down the centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneha Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Remind me how many Islamic terror attacks were carried out in Europe or America prior to 1990. Genuine question, I have no idea but it seems to me that what is taking place now has been initiated by our involvement in their affairs. Islam and Europe Timeline, This will give you dates for the conquest of Europe, its started about 719 AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Glypta Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Three, compared to the Holocaust (carried out by Christians) and all the other wars carried out by Western governments in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas down the centuries. I merely scratched the surface. Here are a few more just spanning a decade. Switzerland February 21 1970: A bomb explodes in the rear of Swissair Flight 330, causing it to crash near Zürich, killing 38 passengers and all nine crew members. The attack was carried out by Palestinian terrorist group PFLP March 1:1973 Black September takes ten hostages (five of them diplomats) at the Saudi Arabian embassy in Khartoum. Three western diplomats are killed. September 28 1973: Chopin-Express: Two Arab terrorists hijack the Chopin-Express from Moscow to Vienna at the East-West border in Marchegg. The train is often used by Jewish exilants from the USSR. The terrorists demand the closure of an Austrian transit camp for Jews on their way to Israel. Chancellor Bruno Kreisky (Jewish himself) complies and allows the terrorists to escape to Libya Italy, December 17 1973: Pan Am Flight 110: 30 passengers were killed when Palestinian guerillas threw phosphorus bombs aboard the aircraft as it prepares for departure. United States, September 8 1974: TWA Flight 841: Bomb kills 88 on jetliner. Attributed to Abu Nidal and his terrorist organization. United States, March 9: 1977 Hanafi Siege. Three buildings in Washington, DC were seized by members of the militant African-American Muslim Hanafi sect, and over 100 hostages were taken. One bystander was shot and killed, and Washington city councilman Marion Barry was shot in the chest. After a two-day standoff, all hostages were released from the District Building (city hall), B'nai B'rith headquarters, and the Islamic Center. France, May 20 1978: Three terrorists fire on El Al passengers in the departure lounge of Paris-Orly Airport, resulting in the death of all three terrorists and one policeman, with 3 French tourists injured. October 3 1980: A motorcycle bomb kills four people and injures over forty at the rue Copernic synagogue in Paris, France. Authorities blamed the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine August 29 1981: Machine gun and grenade attack on the Stadttempel synagogue in Vienna, 1981 Vienna synagogue attack killing two people and wounding 30. Marwan Hasan and Hesham Mohammed Rajeh were convicted September 18 1982: Four people are wounded when a synagogue in Brussels is attacked in a "shoot and run" incident. Guards were taken by surprise and the gunman, believed to be from the Abu Nidal Organization, escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Fair enough, more than I would have thought, but can hardly be described as an attempt to conquer Europe can it? How many of those atrocities were carried out as reprisal for actions carried out by western forces in their countries? Again I don't know, but assume there was some reason for those actions. Doesn't excuse it, but explains the thinking behind it. Were we to total up the number of innocent people killed as a result our actions against Muslims in their countries & compare it against the number of innocent people killed by Muslims in the west what do you think the result would be? The link provided by daneha above ends in 1291 with a defeat for the Crusaders 'bringing an end to their presence in the Orient after two centuries.' There is little doubt as to who interfered in whose land originally. As I said in an earlier post, from the 50s to the 80s we paid virtually no attention to Islamic extremists. The Russians with a threat of nuclear annihilation had our attention & the IRA locally together with the Basque terrorists & Baader Meinhof gang in Europe was basically it. The attitude voiced by some on this thread which is basically summed up as 'Keep killing em til they are all dead' lacks a little finesse in my opinion, short of practicality too. At the last count in 2010 it was estimated that there were 1.6 Billion Muslims worldwide. That is just under 24% of the planets population. Were we to just carry on as we have in the last few years & keep adding 'collateral damage' we shall simply increase the number of people who hate us & are prepared to act on that emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Glypta Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Fair enough, more than I would have thought, but can hardly be described as an attempt to conquer Europe can it? How many of those atrocities were carried out as reprisal for actions carried out by western forces in their countries? Again I don't know, but assume there was some reason for those actions. Doesn't excuse it, but explains the thinking behind it. Were we to total up the number of innocent people killed as a result our actions against Muslims in their countries & compare it against the number of innocent people killed by Muslims in the west what do you think the result would be? The link provided by daneha above ends in 1291 with a defeat for the Crusaders 'bringing an end to their presence in the Orient after two centuries.' There is little doubt as to who interfered in whose land originally. As I said in an earlier post, from the 50s to the 80s we paid virtually no attention to Islamic extremists. The Russians with a threat of nuclear annihilation had our attention & the IRA locally together with the Basque terrorists & Baader Meinhof gang in Europe was basically it. The attitude voiced by some on this thread which is basically summed up as 'Keep killing em til they are all dead' lacks a little finesse in my opinion, short of practicality too. At the last count in 2010 it was estimated that there were 1.6 Billion Muslims worldwide. That is just under 24% of the planets population. Were we to just carry on as we have in the last few years & keep adding 'collateral damage' we shall simply increase the number of people who hate us & are prepared to act on that emotion. You seem desperate to try to excuse terrorists. The cases I mention are the tip of the ice berg. I left out truck bombs on embassies in Africa where hundreds died. But to put the whole thing in perspective since the state of Israel was founded 35,000 Muslims have been killed in conflicts with Israel. 11 million muslims have been killed in conficts with themselves. Every day they blow up their neighbours because they are a different type of muslim. There are not many countries in your list of "muslim countries" where there isn't a major terrorist incident every year, and in many it is every week. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25000329 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 You seem desperate to try to excuse terrorists. The cases I mention are the tip of the ice berg. I left out truck bombs on embassies in Africa where hundreds died. But to put the whole thing in perspective since the state of Israel was founded 35,000 Muslims have been killed in conflicts with Israel. 11 million muslims have been killed in conficts with themselves. Every day they blow up their neighbours because they are a different type of muslim. There are not many countries in your list of "muslim countries" where there isn't a major terrorist incident every year, and in many it is every week. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25000329 I'm not desperate to try to excuse them, I despise anyone who causes the death of innocents. That includes everyone who does so. The point I'm trying to make is that it's no good ranting on about how terrible they are, that will achieve nothing. In the end, all the wars that have taken place have come to an end with talks. In order to communicate you need to understand your adversaries point of view & why they did what they did. The idea that we are totally blameless in this situation is nonsense, but who's more responsible isn't the point. How we bring it to an end is the point. There is a theory of course that Islamic terrorists are purely religious fanatics with no agenda other than to kill all infidels. Obviously, if that is true then we do need to find a way of eliminating them. But is that true? Even if it is, we need to come up with a way of killing them with the co-operation of other Muslims & without any more innocents being involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigthumb Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 There is a theory of course that Islamic terrorists are purely religious fanatics with no agenda other than to kill all infidels. Obviously, if that is true then we do need to find a way of eliminating them. But is that true? Even if it is, we need to come up with a way of killing them with the co-operation of other Muslims & without any more innocents being involved. It seems a pretty good synopsis to me. Muslims seem to be doing a pretty good job of killing one another. Perhaps you are rightand we should encourage them and supply the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The point I'm trying to make is that it's no good ranting on about how terrible they are, that will achieve nothing. In the end, all the wars that have taken place have come to an end with talks. In order to communicate you need to understand your adversaries point of view & why they did what they did. The idea that we are totally blameless in this situation is nonsense, but who's more responsible isn't the point. How we bring it to an end is the point. This is the most sensible post I've seen on the thread so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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