Time to overhaul the law courts?

[Anna B]

Lawyers and Barristers were protesting today about Legal Aid cuts. Or to be more exact, about getting paid well for doing Legal Aid cases.

 

The law is now unaffordable for most ordinary people these days. But we, the taxpayers, are still paying out of taxes for court cases against the crown, and it costs a fortune.

 

When you consider, for example, that in the Crown vs Rebecca Brooks trial, Rebecca Brook's lawyer is being paid in the region of £200 an hour for defending her, what are lawyers for the crown being paid? And how much is this trial, which is expected to go on for months, going to cost the taxpayers?

 

Apart from the cost of lawyers, this whole antiquated system seems to waste money left, right and centre with abandon, and I think it needs a major overhaul. Can we still afford all the traditions and twiddly bits that take an age? The back and forth of the defendants just to give his/her name, with all the attendant costs of transport, police escorts, jurors, court officials etc.

 

Isn't it another area that could be streamlined and brought up to date to save the country money?

[Happ Hazzard]

Lawyers should be treated the same as plumbers, electricians and any other trade. Set your own rate and let people choose who they want to hire to defend them.

[Mecky]

Lawyers should be treated the same as plumbers, electricians and any other trade. Set your own rate and let people choose who they want to hire to defend them.

 

I'll represent you in court, the going rate is "go away"

[LeMaquis]

Lawyers and Barristers were protesting today about Legal Aid cuts. Or to be more exact, about getting paid well for doing Legal Aid cases.

 

The law is now unaffordable for most ordinary people these days. But we, the taxpayers, are still paying out of taxes for court cases against the crown, and it costs a fortune.

 

When you consider, for example, that in the Crown vs Rebecca Brooks trial, Rebecca Brook's lawyer is being paid in the region of £200 an hour for defending her, what are lawyers for the crown being paid? And how much is this trial, which is expected to go on for months, going to cost the taxpayers?

 

Apart from the cost of lawyers, this whole antiquated system seems to waste money left, right and centre with abandon, and I think it needs a major overhaul. Can we still afford all the traditions and twiddly bits that take an age? The back and forth of the defendants just to give his/her name, with all the attendant costs of transport, police escorts, jurors, court officials etc.

 

Isn't it another area that could be streamlined and brought up to date to save the country money?

 

Rebekah Brooks isn't getting legal aid.

 

What has cost got to do with justice? If you had a system that cut corners by cutting costs you'd just get loads of injustices which would cost money to put right. So it's a false economy. Sufficient money should be spent on the system to ensure the system is fair.

 

Why not come up your own specific proposals rather than just moan about cost? Is it because you don't know enough about the legal system to come up with any?

[Mr Clowning]

That's the point, the legal system is not broken as such, its just the Government that's wanting to make savings where ever they can (as long as it does not include the wealthy) so unless someone has the bright idea of coming up with an alternative we must take the wingers with a pinch of salt.

 

Maybe the idea Anna has for a solution is not to have any justice at all and make it a free for all, every man for themselves, up heave the Government and get all Mad max ?

[999tigger]

Okay Anna whats your solution for reform of the legal system? Do you want to scrap the lawyers or maybe you'd like to impose a minimum wage on lawyers? Waiting for your suggestions.

[L00b]

Lawyers and Barristers were protesting today about Legal Aid cuts. Or to be more exact, about getting paid well for doing Legal Aid cases.

Or to be accurate, they were protesting about further (new) cuts to Legal Aid fee levels, which are already borderline loss-making.

The law is now unaffordable for most ordinary people these days.

Viewed like that, the law has always been unaffordable for most ordinary people. That's why Legal Aid was brought about in the first place.

When you consider, for example, that in the Crown vs Rebecca Brooks trial, Rebecca Brook's lawyer is being paid in the region of £200 an hour for defending her, <...>

That's actually quite cheap. One thing which most people engaging with solicitor-bashing and focusing on hourly rates never seem to acknowledge, never mind know about, is that the hourly rate is made up of, amongst other things: the solicitor's wage, the support staff wages (secretaries, clerks, etc.) prorata, overheads (firm premises rent/lease, utilities, etc.) prorata and -basically- everything needed to keep a legal firm running, summed up and averaged out (and divied out per the number of fee earners in a firm) as a function of the number of minimum daily chargeable hours practiced by the firm. Because that's essentially all the firm invoices out and gets an income from.

 

And capped at the other end (of the scale) by what the market commands for the specific set of legal skills and service. Common-or-garden areas of practice (e.g. criminal, property) is the cheap end, highly-specialised/big-liability areas of practice (e.g. intellectual property, mergers and acquisitions) is the high end. Then there is the London/not London weighing factor.

 

The media is replete with factual reports of Legal Aid solicitors with a net take home pay around the minimum wage, once all of the above has been stripped from the headline hourly rate. If you want to give (afford) a pay rise for your receptionist, secretaries, etc. where is the extra money going to come from, in a legal firm?

Apart from the cost of lawyers, this whole antiquated system seems to waste money left, right and centre with abandon, and I think it needs a major overhaul. Can we still afford all the traditions and twiddly bits that take an age? The back and forth of the defendants just to give his/her name, with all the attendant costs of transport, police escorts, jurors, court officials etc.

 

Isn't it another area that could be streamlined and brought up to date to save the country money?

I suggest you acquaint yourself with the CPR and a gentleman by the name of Lord Woolf. To begin with.

[Mr Clowning]

The law is very complicated and takes years to accumulate the knowledge to be able to work in it.

I hope Anna is going to suggest a minimum wage because I will wet myself

[Manlinose]

That's actually quite cheap.

 

if rebekah brooks' lawyer is only charging £200/hour i will be astonished

 

junior lawyers in the backwaters of sheffield and leeds are charged out at that

 

a top london lawyer (if, indeed that is what he/she is) will be charging 2-3 times that - as will the barrister

[L00b]

if rebekah brooks' lawyer is only charging £200/hour i will be astonished

Indeed, but -

junior lawyers in the backwaters of sheffield and leeds are charged out at that

Mmm. Not too sure about that. For local juniors, I've seen plenty of sub-£150 rates around, and that's in the commercial law area (!)

a top london lawyer (if, indeed that is what he/she is) will be charging 2-3 times that - as will the barrister

Around £400 is believable for London/good level, but there has been severe pressure on hourly rates (nationally and in London) for solicitors and barristers since the onset of the recession, and hourly rates have tumbled in many sectors. In my game (IP), we have seen London rates for (top, top-) top-tier senior partners drop by up to 50% in some cases.