OAP pass, getting out and about/potential cuts

[verydull]

As Annie has pointed out the actual cost per journey is approx £1.22 so unless you are only making 9 journeys a year it wouldnt be £10

 

 

 

And how would you have been consulted.

They are perks - anything over and above the norm is a perk. If, from the beginning, the PTE/ITA had decided to only implement the conditions of the scheme then we wouldnt be having this conversation and you would have accepted it and adjusted accordingly because you wouldnt have known any different

 

 

 

And how would the "happy medium" be collected

Who would set the rate (which would be a lot higher than £10)

What would you do about the people who complain that they would rarely use the enhancement but be expected to pay for it?

What would you do if you thought the rate set was too high?

woudl you prefer to pay only for the travel you do?

 

 

I don't know how that figure has been got, however I have justified my figures on here and in the blog that has been posted. Whilst I appreciate that it might not be that low it will be signficantly cheaper than the alternative that you suggest of paying for what you use. Also it will give users the choice of using money or remaining cashless. As you have seen throughout this thread, cash presents a great difficulty to some people using the bus. As you may or may not know our bus passes are controlled through the council. As such they will have a list of who has them. There are other ways, such as through chairities and other representative groups (such as the ones who are fighting these changes).

 

I hate to be awkward but it is not a perk. The pre 9am bus usage was in place well before english national concession came in. As was the trains. South yorkshire transport authority gave the concessionary rate of child fare for disabled and elderly people. I don't see why we can't revert back to this or a similar scheme as I have pointed out many times.

 

The transport authority already issue their own tickets. The ENCT ticket has the ability to be many different things (elderly, disabled, carer, VI and blind etc) I don't see it being much harder to issue another ticket for those who want to pay. I am not forcing payment on people who dont want it. I just want to be given the choice, thats all.

[Joe Totale]

As Annie has pointed out the actual cost per journey is approx £1.22 so unless you are only making 9 journeys a year it wouldnt be £10...........................

 

And how would the "happy medium" be collected

Who would set the rate (which would be a lot higher than £10)

What would you do about the people who complain that they would rarely use the enhancement but be expected to pay for it?

What would you do if you thought the rate set was too high?

woudl you prefer to pay only for the travel you do?

Regarding Bus travel:

I don't think Annie's figures are just for the pre 9.30am travel, that's the loss of concession that will harm the disabled who are trying to get out and do something constructive with their lives. Remember it's only the outward pre 9.30 journey that the disabled are losing (and would have to pay a "premium" on).

[sheffbag]

I don't know how that figure has been got, however I have justified my figures on here and in the blog that has been posted. Whilst I appreciate that it might not be that low it will be signficantly cheaper than the alternative that you suggest of paying for what you use. Also it will give users the choice of using money or remaining cashless. As you have seen throughout this thread, cash presents a great difficulty to some people using the bus. As you may or may not know our bus passes are controlled through the council. As such they will have a list of who has them. There are other ways, such as through chairities and other representative groups (such as the ones who are fighting these changes).

 

I hate to be awkward but it is not a perk. The pre 9am bus usage was in place well before english national concession came in. As was the trains. South yorkshire transport authority gave the concessionary rate of child fare for disabled and elderly people. I don't see why we can't revert back to this or a similar scheme as I have pointed out many times.

 

The transport authority already issue their own tickets. The ENCT ticket has the ability to be many different things (elderly, disabled, carer, VI and blind etc) I don't see it being much harder to issue another ticket for those who want to pay. I am not forcing payment on people who dont want it. I just want to be given the choice, thats all.

 

i understand where you are coming from but the fact remains that the Govt has mandated that for bus journeys betwenn 9:30 and 23:00 the LA's HAVE to offer free travel to those who qualify.

 

Anything else regardless of if it was there before or now is an additional benefit paid for (as was the 2p and 5p fare back in the 70's)

 

They could revert back to chargeable discounted cost for elderly and disabled outside of the ENCTS hours. Like i said in an earlier post i think for the pittance that it will save it has the chance to be a PR disaster for the PTE/ITA.

 

But if you charge a concession fare for pre 9:30 and post 23:00 that difference still has to be paid from the levy. I think the idea of a concession fare is a good one and you have at least put forward a good solution instead of just moaning about it.

[julado]

Put simply (again), the English National Concession Travel Scheme for Senior Citizens and the Disabled, funded by the government, offers travel on local bus services in England from 09:30-23:00 Mondays to Fridays and anytime at weekends. Anything above and beyond that is funded by the local authority out of their general transport budget at their discretion.

 

Since the current government started with the austerity cuts, the general transport budget for South Yorkshire has been cut each year. This year a further 10% in savings has to be found.

 

The current proposals of cutting things provided 'above and beyond' along with some redundancies at SYPTE save the required amount.

 

The alternative is to cut all tendered bus services which would see a lot of rural, evening, Sunday and local minibus services vanish. This potentially would leave some pensioners and disabled people with no buses to use their pass on! All I'd say there is be careful what you wish for.

 

There are perfectly valid arguments as to why bus passes should be offered with the extras including peak travel and rail travel, however that argument is higher up the chain at government level, not locally where councillors and transport managers are basically being forced into making a decision on what cuts are 'less worse'.

 

So up until now...Sheffield bus operators (in conjuction with SYPTE) haven't seen the need to provide a direct bus to Leeds, Wakefield and Huddersfield because those with passes could get there for free on the train. Now with the concession removed....can we "presume" that Sheffield will now get direct express buses to the areas we now cannot access on our passes.

 

Thing is, and what I am saying here is, the bus companies are complacent enough....and didn't see the need to run buses whilst the train covered the distance - and SYPTE sanctioned this. WHERE is the sense of cutting something that works and leaving us high and dry???

 

I went to Leeds today...train back was full....many travellers with passes....take away those people...the train will still run.....EMPTY. How long will it be then before Northern Rail start cutting back because of this. It all has a knock on effect.

 

I would be more than happy to pay an extra amount to SYPTE to keep this concession.

[bus man]

Bus services did run to Huddersfield from sheffield. Sheffield to Leeds and sheffield to Bradford via Wakefield if my memory us right. The services were a mixture of commercial and tended the operators pulled the commercial services and the tenders were dropped for the tended services. Even if all the pass holders used the bus services that the op demands they put on they will not be enough to run them. Some of the services were part of the white rose network. One of. the probs with the Bradford services was the length of the route and drivers hours b

 

---------- Post added 26-02-2014 at 19:28 ----------

 

Bus services did run to Huddersfield from sheffield. Sheffield to Leeds and sheffield to Bradford via Wakefield if my memory us right. The services were a mixture of commercial and tended the operators pulled the commercial services and the tenders were dropped for the tended services. Even if all the pass holders used the bus services that the op demands they put on they will not be enough to run them. Some of the services were part of the white rose network. One of. the probs with the Bradford services was the length of the route and drivers hours.

[Annie Bynnol]

So up until now...Sheffield bus operators (in conjuction with SYPTE) haven't seen the need to provide a direct bus to Leeds, Wakefield and Huddersfield because those with passes could get there for free on the train. Now with the concession removed....can we "presume" that Sheffield will now get direct express buses to the areas we now cannot access on our passes.

 

Thing is, and what I am saying here is, the bus companies are complacent enough....and didn't see the need to run buses whilst the train covered the distance - and SYPTE sanctioned this. WHERE is the sense of cutting something that works and leaving us high and dry???

 

I went to Leeds today...train back was full....many travellers with passes....take away those people...the train will still run.....EMPTY. How long will it be then before Northern Rail start cutting back because of this. It all has a knock on effect.

 

I would be more than happy to pay an extra amount to SYPTE to keep this concession.

 

There is no loss of train service. There will not be a timetable change as this is controlled by other factors. Any agreements between SYPTE and Northern end with the new franchise.

If they are empty trains then Northern may start making offers like those currently available in Lancashire to attract customers.

Bus and coach operators are free to offer competitive services between West

and South Yorkshire and charge competitively.

South Yorkshire residents who are "...happy to pay an extra amount to SYPTE to keep this concession." should spend the commercial unsubsidised Railcard available to all over 60s including those pensioners not entitled to a buss pass.

[Walkley Dave]

I believe that a bus service which will be "free" to bus pass holders must be a service bus service and not an "express" service. So Sheffield - Chapeltown - Barnsley - Wakefield- Leeds would be OK I believe.

 

Sheffield-Leeds would not.

[julado]

There is no loss of train service. There will not be a timetable change as this is controlled by other factors. Any agreements between SYPTE and Northern end with the new franchise.

If they are empty trains then Northern may start making offers like those currently available in Lancashire to attract customers.

Bus and coach operators are free to offer competitive services between West

and South Yorkshire and charge competitively.

South Yorkshire residents who are "...happy to pay an extra amount to SYPTE to keep this concession." should spend the commercial unsubsidised Railcard available to all over 60s including those pensioners not entitled to a buss pass.

 

You OBVIOUSLY missed the point!!! What buses are there then from SHEFFIELD to Leeds and Huddersfield....NONE....because the bus companies have relied on the concession that allows OAP's/Disabled to use the trains. So remove that and what????

 

And the last bit you wrote...I didn't understand that at all.

 

---------- Post added 26-02-2014 at 19:46 ----------

 

I believe that a bus service which will be "free" to bus pass holders must be a service bus service and not an "express" service. So Sheffield - Chapeltown - Barnsley - Wakefield- Leeds would be OK I believe.

 

Sheffield-Leeds would not.

 

The bus pass would cover both - express buses aren't excluded from the deal.....I can get the X17 to Chesterfield....the X78 to Doncaster (though how 90 minutes makes that eXpress beats me).

 

I would say that an X bus based on the Sheffield-Chapeltown-Barnsley-Wakefield-Leeds would be fine. The only thing is.....there isn't one - to do that it would mean many changes....and take 3.5 hours (as detailed by Plain Talker earlier in the thread).

[nohands]

So up until now...Sheffield bus operators (in conjuction with SYPTE) haven't seen the need to provide a direct bus to Leeds, Wakefield and Huddersfield because those with passes could get there for free on the train. Now with the concession removed....can we "presume" that Sheffield will now get direct express buses to the areas we now cannot access on our passes.

 

Thing is, and what I am saying here is, the bus companies are complacent enough....and didn't see the need to run buses whilst the train covered the distance - and SYPTE sanctioned this. WHERE is the sense of cutting something that works and leaving us high and dry???

.

 

It is not a case of bus operators being complacent. They are in business to make money. The X32 direct Leeds Sheffield bus was withdrawn some years ago because it was losing money. The changes proposed have nothing to do with bus operators. Long distance services used by people using CT cards are disproportionately badly reimbursed to bus operators; recently the Leeds to Scarborough bus nearly had reductions to the service precisely because they were running busy buses at a loss.

 

The ENCTS is a commitment made by central government. The cuts that they have made have forced local authorities to cut back on all services.

 

Personally I would rather pay a bit more tax and keep libraries, sports centres, public toilets and concessionary travel etc, but it is not a choice that local authorities are in a position to make.

[Annie Bynnol]

... What buses are there then from SHEFFIELD to Leeds and Huddersfield....NONE....because the bus companies have relied on the concession that allows OAP's/Disabled to use the trains. So remove that and what????

 

There is no requirement for bus companies in this area to provide services.*

There is no reliance between train concessions and service provision by buses.

 

As these services need to make a commercial profit, with the end of train subsidy bus companies might see an opportunity to provide more services between W and S Yorkshire which would benefit more users than the just the over 66s

*(SYPTE has agreements in Sheffield but nothing to do with this)