Time to give people the right to die?

[spilldig]

You can't deny a treatment to the vast majority of decent people just because you think someone may abuse it.

It may be you that is put under that pressure. It has to be considered.

[salsafan]

You've got me wrong. Individualism goes to core of my values, it's just in my opinion the lack of assisted dying reduces an individuals autonomy of their own body. I would march up until I dropped to protect you amd your family's right to live your lives as you choose.

 

However I cannot pretend that I understand the mindset of someone who when confronted with a person with locked in syndrome who wanted to end their life. Would say "sorry mate, no can do. Don't worry you'll die in 30 years just abit of a wait."

 

All I want is a organisation such as dignitas to be allowed to function in UK. So,the people who want to die can. What did you think I was suggesting some sought mass extinction?

You are not even listening to what others have wrote and from the angle that they are coming from. You have absolutely no understanding whatsoever. I hope that you never actually have to see your own father die. I don't.

 

You watch a TV show, and then get all suddenly washed and brainstormed and philosophical about death and about society. To be honest, a lot of us with families, and has seen loved ones past away already has to deal with this as a reality and as a part of our own lives. We do not even kick up that much of a fuss like you have here. Nor do I tamper and actually deal with other families' private choices. It is down to each individual family's and their decisions. Cos it is never a simple one if at that. I do take offence actually at others suggesting that it is their decision over my family. I really do.

 

When I saw my own father die of cancer slowly and through a period of a few years, going through the treatment with him, caring for him, and being there for him, listening to his anger, his frustrations, and his cries, and then his wisdom also. It makes me appreciate life so much more. Yet, I was also a wreck at this time too. For those of us who are now in our mid life, we have shared and possibly seen a parent past away. This is like a shared understanding and bonding. Until you see or actually have been through that already, you will not, I can guarantee you, you will not know what life is all about. Out of my university friends, as much as 50% of us have had a cancer patient in our family. We also still help where we can, and we still share, and we still have to also get on with lives too. To look after our younger ones, as well as to appreciate and take more care with one another cos time is indeed precious.

 

 

Maybe some of us have actually never had babies, or never had to teach anyone, or have had an absolutely shielded childhood and a more shielded existence in their adulthood, but most of us who are more realistic, do see, do help, and do learn from their parents, and from their children.

 

If you are watching a TV show to learn about death, then really, you need to get out so much more, of maybe you should sign yourself up to do some hospital work, or to help the homeless and see them dying and see them slowly getting worst and worst in health conditions. Maybe then you will realise that life is so fragile, and that life is still not fair. Yet, most of us make the best of things, and make the best of those who we love, and to enhance their lives in some ways or another. Maybe you like to see yourself as part of this saviour for all, and maybe you like to encourage others to use social money to help others, rather than to earn a lot more and then to donate. Where do I even start with this kind of deep question ?

 

For me, I can say hands on heart that I genuinely appreciate those nurses who went through the same pain as I did as I asked them for help, but I would also never also put their lives too at risk also, in actually asking them to help me put my own father down. Nor would my father ever wanted to ask others to help him die either. Cos at the end of that time, he too would still want to preserve life itself. We helped his comfort and we helped get better treatment for him by spending our savings up. I doubt that some of you know the traumatic experiences that others goes through, and can post actually absolutely obtuse and emotive subjects to provoke a social response, and sound so arrogance, without an understanding or care for those who actually do suffer, and actually have to live with these kind of experiences for the rest of their own lives. If you cannot even remember these kind of things, or have never had this kind of experiences, then please, for a moment, do not act as if you can, or will.

 

I also do have medic friends, and they too have to be looked after. Cos each time they help someone, they cannot help them, and it has a lot of effect on them too. I can only but be there as a friend to them and to continue to help motivate them also. But it is tough to be facing that kind of decision each day. It takes a lot of bravery and tolerance and maturity also. I don't comment when they tell me their experiences, and nor do I tell them the solution or even to suggest it. I just listen, cos they need this.

 

Welcome to the real world Jmack. With your questioning of life and of social care and of healthcare with strong authorities. By the way, I do not watch Coronation Street because my life is already a Coronation Street itself, and I do know and still care for family. It is not that entertaining to be honest. I rather use the rest of my life time to enhance those who I love more dearly, and be of a bit of a use to society.

[Jmack]

You are not even listening to what others have wrote and from the angle that they are coming from. You have absolutely no understanding whatsoever. I hope that you never actually have to see your own father die. I don't.

 

You watch a TV show, and then get all suddenly washed and brainstormed and philosophical about death and about society. To be honest, a lot of us with families, and has seen loved ones past away already has to deal with this as a reality and as a part of our own lives. We do not even kick up that much of a fuss like you have here. Nor do I tamper and actually deal with other families' private choices. It is down to each individual family's and their decisions. Cos it is never a simple one if at that. I do take offence actually at others suggesting that it is their decision over my family. I really do.

 

When I saw my own father die of cancer slowly and through a period of a few years, going through the treatment with him, caring for him, and being there for him, listening to his anger, his frustrations, and his cries, and then his wisdom also. It makes me appreciate life so much more. Yet, I was also a wreck at this time too. For those of us who are now in our mid life, we have shared and possibly seen a parent past away. This is like a shared understanding and bonding. Until you see or actually have been through that already, you will not, I can guarantee you, you will not know what life is all about. Out of my university friends, as much as 50% of us have had a cancer patient in our family. We also still help where we can, and we still share, and we still have to also get on with lives too. To look after our younger ones, as well as to appreciate and take more care with one another cos time is indeed precious.

 

 

Maybe some of us have actually never had babies, or never had to teach anyone, or have had an absolutely shielded childhood and a more shielded existence in their adulthood, but most of us who are more realistic, do see, do help, and do learn from their parents, and from their children.

 

If you are watching a TV show to learn about death, then really, you need to get out so much more, of maybe you should sign yourself up to do some hospital work, or to help the homeless and see them dying and see them slowly getting worst and worst in health conditions. Maybe then you will realise that life is so fragile, and that life is still not fair. Yet, most of us make the best of things, and make the best of those who we love, and to enhance their lives in some ways or another. Maybe you like to see yourself as part of this saviour for all, and maybe you like to encourage others to use social money to help others, rather than to earn a lot more and then to donate. Where do I even start with this kind of deep question ?

 

For me, I can say hands on heart that I genuinely appreciate those nurses who went through the same pain as I did as I asked them for help, but I would also never also put their lives too at risk also, in actually asking them to help me put my own father down. Nor would my father ever wanted to ask others to help him die either. Cos at the end of that time, he too would still want to preserve life itself. We helped his comfort and we helped get better treatment for him by spending our savings up. I doubt that some of you know the traumatic experiences that others goes through, and can post actually absolutely obtuse and emotive subjects to provoke a social response, and sound so arrogance, without an understanding or care for those who actually do suffer, and actually have to live with these kind of experiences for the rest of their own lives. If you cannot even remember these kind of things, or have never had this kind of experiences, then please, for a moment, do not act as if you can, or will.

 

I also do have medic friends, and they too have to be looked after. Cos each time they help someone, they cannot help them, and it has a lot of effect on them too. I can only but be there as a friend to them and to continue to help motivate them also. But it is tough to be facing that kind of decision each day. It takes a lot of bravery and tolerance and maturity also. I don't comment when they tell me their experiences, and nor do I tell them the solution or even to suggest it. I just listen, cos they need this.

 

Welcome to the real world Jmack. With your questioning of life and of social care and of healthcare with strong authorities. By the way, I do not watch Coronation Street because my life is already a Coronation Street itself, and I do know and still care for family. It is not that entertaining to be honest. I rather use the rest of my life time to enhance those who I love more dearly, and be of a bit of a use to society.

 

Your not really making any sense and just ranting. So in an attempt to get you back on track I'll number my responses.

1. The reason I mentioned coronation street was because it's sparked the debate about right to do die. And caused the issue to be on the sun's front page. I've actually been reading and following this issue for years.

2. Please explain how I'm interfering with families private choices.

3. I actually do volunteer in a hospital. Once a week.

4. Your Fathers position not to end his life is his own choice and I appreciate why he made it. But others may want to end their own life and they should be allowed to do so.

5. You seem very emotional and spent a lot that post either insulting me. For not sharing your opinion or ranting about what a good friend you are to your medic freinds. At no point did you give me one reason why dignitas should not be allowed be allowed to function in the UK.

6. Your real world paragraph is laughable. You have monopoly on the "real world" and just because I don't share your opinion doesn't mean I'm living in a bubble.

7. It funny that you say that I'm not listening to anyone else's writing when you couldn't be bothered to read the post you actually quoted.

8. How is trying to change the law not being a use to society?

 

I suggest you get a blog or something as you appear highly emotional. Your post was a best incoherent and did not once attempt to answer my argument. Of your looking for an outlet to let out your anger and rant about life I suggest you find another way do so that doesn't involve having a go at me.

 

Anyway if you actually do have a good reason why dignitas shouldn't be allowed in the UK i'd love to hear it.

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2014 at 16:50 ----------

 

It may be you that is put under that pressure. It has to be considered.

 

It does. But this hasn't been a problem in the European counties that give a right to die.

[salsafan]

Your not really making any sense and just ranting. So in an attempt to get you back on track I'll number my responses.

1. The reason I mentioned coronation street was because it's sparked the debate about right to do die. And caused the issue to be on the sun's front page. I've actually been reading and following this issue for years.

2. Please explain how I'm interfering with families private choices.

3. I actually do volunteer in a hospital. Once a week.

4. Your Fathers position not to end his life is his own choice and I appreciate why he made it. But others may want to end their own life and they should be allowed to do so.

5. You seem very emotional and spent a lot that post either insulting me. For not sharing your opinion or ranting about what a good friend you are to your medic freinds. At no point did you give me one reason why dignitas should not be allowed be allowed to function in the UK.

6. Your real world paragraph is laughable. You have monopoly on the "real world" and just because I don't share your opinion doesn't mean I'm living in a bubble.

7. It funny that you say that I'm not listening to anyone else's writing when you couldn't be bothered to read the post you actually quoted.

8. How is trying to change the law not being a use to society?

 

I suggest you get a blog or something as you appear highly emotional. Your post was a best incoherent and did not once attempt to answer my argument. Of your looking for an outlet to let out your anger and rant about life I suggest you find another way do so that doesn't involve having a go at me.

 

Anyway if you actually do have a good reason why dignitas shouldn't be allowed in the UK i'd love to hear it.

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2014 at 16:50 ----------

 

 

It does. But this hasn't been a problem in the European counties that give a right to die.

You are really something.

 

Because it seems to me that you do not care about other people, but you just continue to actually rant about this issue. I see this as fairly simple. You have no right if you are not part of the government, or any charitable society, to actually even bring up this subject for social discussion on a public level. Doing what you just did meant that you are just drumming social ills, and making people argue on issues that does not even concern you or your own family. You are just trolling and touting for a response.

 

Even when others have shared their upmost private stories, you seem to bypass this and overlook their actual emotions related to this private and sensitive issue, and still bulldoze over them to say that others have a right. Do you want actual validation and opinion point scoring, or what ? Cos frankly, not everybody also feel or want to be seeing somebody like yourself, or to entertain you in this kind of despicable subjects. Those who are "for" that same sentiment as yourself will join, as you could see. Yet you have not even taken into consideration of other people's opinions and their values too. Of which, I think I am the one of the fair few ones who put myself up for this kind of emotive discussion.

 

For me to read that you are approaching this subject with a lack of compassion and emotions is actually pointing towards something which I do not even want to say.

 

I really have nothing more to say to you cos it is obvious that you have a personal agenda and against those who want to preserve life, and it is almost as traumatic an experience to even be discussing those subjects.

 

For your parents sake, I hope that you actually ask them for their advice on how you wish to handle their affairs too. Also, please do not assume that your values will be wanted by those others too. Thank you. Nothing more to say. Done here. When you grow a heart, and when you grow a brain, come back to me. Maybe then I will talk more, but other than then, I don't think I want to participate in your sandbox. Sorry.

 

Are you truly sure that it is I who need a blog and not you ? I represent myself, and my experiences. What do you represent ? Everybody ? You may ponder, but why are you advocating ? This is something that I do not understand. Because the bottomline is that you are trolling.

 

- There is a difference between sharing personal stories, and politicalising for the sake of politicising this, and then one day enforce THOSE defined situations as one that will actually be applied to someone and therefore make their lives miserable. Have you ever thought of it this way too ? Cos based on your words now, it will start a ball rolling and move a momentum. -

 

I have not much to say. I wondered if you ever reflect on this kind of thing. For me, when I see and hear death, I think about the time that I have left on this planet and think about what I want to do next and how best I can make me and my family's life better. For you, when you see others and you see death, you seem to egg on more and more on this political issue and move this forward, thinking that it will help someone. I wondered if others see the country and its politics as personal as you do, and wear it as a badge of honor like you do. I do wonder about that.

 

I never see it this way, but it is clear to me that, there are ALWAYS someone making an opportunity out of your own family ills. Reading this thread makes it clear so.

[Jmack]

You are really something.

 

Because it seems to me that you do not care about other people, but you just continue to actually rant about this issue. I see this as fairly simple. You have no right if you are not part of the government, or any charitable society, to actually even bring up this subject for social discussion on a public level. Doing what you just did meant that you are just drumming social ills, and making people argue on issues that does not even concern you or your own family. You are just trolling and touting for a response.

 

Even when others have shared their upmost private stories, you seem to bypass this and overlook their actual emotions related to this private and sensitive issue, and still bulldoze over them to say that others have a right. Do you want actual validation and opinion point scoring, or what ? Cos frankly, not everybody also feel or want to be seeing somebody like yourself, or to entertain you in this kind of despicable subjects. Those who are "for" that same sentiment as yourself will join, as you could see. Yet you have not even taken into consideration of other people's opinions and their values too. Of which, I think I am the one of the fair few ones who put myself up for this kind of emotive discussion.

 

For me to read that you are approaching this subject with a lack of compassion and emotions is actually pointing towards something which I do not even want to say.

 

I really have nothing more to say to you cos it is obvious that you have a personal agenda and against those who want to preserve life, and it is almost as traumatic an experience to even be discussing those subjects.

 

For your parents sake, I hope that you actually ask them for their advice on how you wish to handle their affairs too. Also, please do not assume that your values will be wanted by those others too. Thank you. Nothing more to say. Done here. When you grow a heart, and when you grow a brain, come back to me. Maybe then I will talk more, but other than then, I don't think I want to participate in your sandbox. Sorry.

 

Are you truly sure that it is I who need a blog and not you ? I represent myself, and my experiences. What do you represent ? Everybody ? You may ponder, but why are you advocating ? This is something that I do not understand. Because the bottomline is that you are trolling.

 

I'm not trolling and in my time on this forum no one has ever said that to me. Actually their was a healthy discussion going on until you showed upHow can you say that I have no right to bring up this subject? We live in a free country and I can bring up what I want.

 

I think your highly emotional and seem unable to use objectivity to debate this. The fact that your upset that I even brought up this issue shows this.

 

Is your objection religious? Because in my experiance the only people who fly off the handle like this tend to have a religious reason for being so opposed.

 

Also to answer your last point, I represent the proportion of the British public who want assisted dying to be made legal. Which by the way is the majority.

[salsafan]

That is the thing, I am not wanting to debate. But you are...

I see you as a selfish individual sprouting rubbish, but please do carry on.

 

Your voice may be free, but other peoples' morals are freer.

No debate. Simple answer. N-O.

 

Just because I oppose, you suddenly think that I am a religious person ? Gordon Bennett. You know, you can have a whole conversation with yourself. Please continue to advocate this, and fight for this "justice" as you will. When that voting time comes. I still will vote NO. N-O ! I do not see why I need to degrade myself in jumping through hoops to have any discussion with yourself. It seems that you have made a choice already, then go ahead and make this as a political activistic issue and get this pushed through parliament.

[Bypassblade]

Quite, it is very personal. That is why the subject is being raised. Why should someone who through having a terminal illness with a very protracted and painful end be forced to choose to die before their time because they can afford to go abroad and have to do so without any assistance or companionship of their loved ones. Or run the risk of having those loved ones charged with a criminal offence, just because someone like yourself has an opinion on the subject or some nebulous religious view about it? Or worse still, not be able to travel abroad and be forced to try killing or starving themselves to death without anyone knowing anything about it until too late? It seems very unfair to me.

 

A side issue but I've read a lot of your comments on various subjects lately and, no offence, I'm intrigued by your writing style? You have a very unique way of expressing yourself, is English not your native tongue?

 

By this do you mean use Dignitas? as you say death is personal and yes we all may know someone or heard of someone who is terminal, but until you live it nobody has a true idea how it feels.

 

Not all choose to use Dignitas even if can afford it, I wouldn't commit suicide as it would mess up the mortgage insurance and that's not fair on my wife.

 

I put up with my lot, people are worse off than myself and less time to live, but I'm kept going by medication, every day I wake up is a bonus which I enjoy every day.

 

If my wife could help me go, without fear of retribution I'd let her do it.

 

Pete

[Jmack]

That is the thing, I am not wanting to debate. But you are...

I see you as a selfish individual sprouting rubbish, but please do carry on.

 

Your voice may be free, but other peoples' morals are freer.

No debate. Simple answer. N-O.

 

Just because I oppose, you suddenly think that I am a religious person ? Gordon Bennett. You know, you can have a whole conversation with yourself. Please continue to advocate this, and fight for this "justice" as you will. When that voting time comes. I still will vote NO. N-O ! I do not see why I need to degrade myself in jumping through hoops to have any discussion with yourself. It seems that you have made a choice already, then go ahead and make this as a political activistic issue and get this pushed through parliament.

 

Well why are you on a public forum if you have no intention of debating. If you don't want to debate don't post on a thread which in it's OP says that this is a debate.

 

The only reason i thought you were religious is because you seemed to have took leave of your senses be in a incandescent rage just because i had the nerve to bring up this issue. Also don't see how wanting to give people the choice. I'll repeat that the CHOICE to end their own life is selfish. This is a political activist issue and most of the British people want assisted dying to be legal, so yes i will work to get this through parliament.

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2014 at 17:31 ----------

 

By this do you mean use Dignitas? as you say death is personal and yes we all may know someone or heard of someone who is terminal, but until you live it nobody has a true idea how it feels.

 

Not all choose to use Dignitas even if can afford it, I wouldn't commit suicide as it would mess up the mortgage insurance and that's not fair on my wife.

 

I put up with my lot, people are worse off than myself and less time to live, but I'm kept going by medication, every day I wake up is a bonus which I enjoy every day.

 

If my wife could help me go, without fear of retribution I'd let her do it.

 

Pete

 

But if you had a condition such as locked in syndrome you wouldn't even be allowed to go to dignitas as the person who would go with you would be liable for prosecution.

 

---------- Post added 18-01-2014 at 17:45 ----------

 

choice should be up to the individual

 

watch : Jason becker not dead yet (not everyone wants out)

 

Of course it should. That's why if assisted-dying is allowed it should be under some of strictest regulation ever seen.

[francypants]

You are really something.

 

Because it seems to me that you do not care about other people, but you just continue to actually rant about this issue. I see this as fairly simple. You have no right if you are not part of the government, or any charitable society, to actually even bring up this subject for social discussion on a public level. Doing what you just did meant that you are just drumming social ills, and making people argue on issues that does not even concern you or your own family. You are just trolling and touting for a response.

 

Even when others have shared their upmost private stories, you seem to bypass this and overlook their actual emotions related to this private and sensitive issue, and still bulldoze over them to say that others have a right. Do you want actual validation and opinion point scoring, or what ? Cos frankly, not everybody also feel or want to be seeing somebody like yourself, or to entertain you in this kind of despicable subjects. Those who are "for" that same sentiment as yourself will join, as you could see. Yet you have not even taken into consideration of other people's opinions and their values too. Of which, I think I am the one of the fair few ones who put myself up for this kind of emotive discussion.

 

For me to read that you are approaching this subject with a lack of compassion and emotions is actually pointing towards something which I do not even want to say.

 

I really have nothing more to say to you cos it is obvious that you have a personal agenda and against those who want to preserve life, and it is almost as traumatic an experience to even be discussing those subjects.

 

For your parents sake, I hope that you actually ask them for their advice on how you wish to handle their affairs too. Also, please do not assume that your values will be wanted by those others too. Thank you. Nothing more to say. Done here. When you grow a heart, and when you grow a brain, come back to me. Maybe then I will talk more, but other than then, I don't think I want to participate in your sandbox. Sorry.

 

Are you truly sure that it is I who need a blog and not you ? I represent myself, and my experiences. What do you represent ? Everybody ? You may ponder, but why are you advocating ? This is something that I do not understand. Because the bottomline is that you are trolling.

 

- There is a difference between sharing personal stories, and politicalising for the sake of politicising this, and then one day enforce THOSE defined situations as one that will actually be applied to someone and therefore make their lives miserable. Have you ever thought of it this way too ? Cos based on your words now, it will start a ball rolling and move a momentum. -

 

I have not much to say. I wondered if you ever reflect on this kind of thing. For me, when I see and hear death, I think about the time that I have left on this planet and think about what I want to do next and how best I can make me and my family's life better. For you, when you see others and you see death, you seem to egg on more and more on this political issue and move this forward, thinking that it will help someone. I wondered if others see the country and its politics as personal as you do, and wear it as a badge of honor like you do. I do wonder about that.

 

I never see it this way, but it is clear to me that, there are ALWAYS someone making an opportunity out of your own family ills. Reading this thread makes it clear so.

 

What an obnoxious person you are, childishly insulting other people because of their differing opinions to your own. You WILL not and CAN not consider anybody's opinion but your own and think everybody else is in the wrong.

I'm afraid you have shown yourself up to be a very arrogant person with an awful holier than thou attitude.

[Jmack]

What an obnoxious person you are, childishly insulting other people because of their differing opinions to your own. You WILL not and CAN not consider anybody's opinion but your own and think everybody else is in the wrong.

I'm afraid you have shown yourself up to be a very arrogant person with an awful holier than thou attitude.

 

The guys a complete moron. He says i don't even have a right to bring up the subject.