Jmack Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 I have this much to say, and sorry, it is clear that you think and lead a different type of life as I do. Although I would have also said that I see you as humanly equal, but judging your behaviours, it seems that you guys seem humanity as less than nothing. As I said before, you can want to die, and not do as best as you could in this lifetime, and life a sadder life, or you can live a more fulfilled life for those who yo love, and spend more time with them, and be there for them and make them laugh so that when it comes to their elderly age, that they do not feel alone, and want to actually go cos you never bothered not visit them or to love them and make them share you life journey too. You may want to drum up the numbers, and overwork yourself to death and spend more time listening to politics and listen to more opinions on what people say, but have you ever thought as to why people want to go and never be a burden ? It is cos they have isolated themselves and focused on themselves their entire life and has not made that many deep emotional connections, and hence they want to die a dignified way to preserve their reputation. To me, living a fulfilled life is dignified. Living for others is dignified. Not whether others could and not. It is surprising to me to also read some of your comments here from I presume healthcare individuals that you too have as little care for those who you actually look after. Maybe you cannot white lie publically or that you do not realise the importance of respect or filtering. but should you say these things out loud publically and should you really enforce this kind of issues as a political one, and therefore force citizens to CHOOSE and make this law happen ? At the end of the day, if you cannot do the job then I am sure you know what you should do. Just resign. Cos you do not have to give such little dignity to those who you serve. It is indeed odd. In one single generation, we have become so selfish and left the next generation with such little dignity. Really. Terry Prachett may have found love and written his work with love, but his sprouting rubbish is absolutely ridiculous and has no place publically to be honest! He is almost as bad as those ridiculous celebrity who peddle on about perfume. All I have to say is that your wrong on the point that i view humanity as less than nothing. It is the respect for the Human being that makes me adopt my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratter71 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Why are those people you see every day in that appalling state of neglect. Why are they not being cared for properly? Why have they developed those pressure sores, and why are they not getting treated for pain, can you explain? because they are old, because they have dementia, because they refuse outside help, because care staff are low paid & therefore often dont speak the language/ dont actually care. Pain? How does somebody with limited English skills convince a demented individual to "take the tablets, they are good for you?" Not true in all cases but it happens. Society puts a low value on "care" These and other reasons. IMHO modern medicine extends life beyond modern societies capability ---------- Post added 19-01-2014 at 01:43 ---------- I have this much to say, and sorry, it is clear that you think and lead a different type of life as I do. . This much is true, I unfortunately had to abandon the rose-tinted spectacles a long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 ..... This much is true, I unfortunately had to abandon the rose-tinted spectacles a long time ago Unfortunately to say to you M'Dear, my rose-tinted glasses has also fallen off my noses too, but unlike yourself, I still live my life with dignity cos I have already seen the light. Why should I pass on my bad ills onto those others that I serve in my job ? Life is harsh as it is but we do indeed can make ourselves and or life better. Also not to degrade it by talking BS too. This helps. If you cannot handle the stress any more then you should indeed give other people in this industry a chance. When I realised that I can no longer do that job, I move on. There is more dignity in doing that and people will actually appreciate you so much more as well. Cos it is HARD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratter71 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Unfortunately to say to you M'Dear, my rose-tinted glasses has also fallen off my noses too, but unlike yourself, I still live my life with dignity cos I have already seen the light. Why should I pass on my bad ills onto those others that I serve in my job ? Life is harsh as it is but we do indeed can make ourselves and or life better. Also not to degrade it by talking BS too. This helps. If you cannot handle the stress any more then you should indeed give other people in this industry a chance. When I realised that I can no longer do that job, I move on. There is more dignity in doing that and people will actually appreciate you so much more as well. Cos it is HARD. By this I assume you know what I do and you I am, and my life's experiences, pray do tell! You assume so much for one of of so little insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mort Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Keep it civil please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 What about people who want to die, but then change their mind, maybe they recover a bit or learn to cope with their illness or injuries, maybe some wouldn't get the chance to change their mind. Maybe if they're terminal, going to die soon anyway & in lots of pain with no chance of recovery it should be allowed, but then it already is allowed as they just keep increasing the painkiller doses to possibly fatal levels. For dementia it's even harder, as they've lost the ability to make rational decisions. So is a cull of dementia sufferers your answer, ratter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Its time for the people that want the right to live as long as possible to stop interfering in the lives of the people that want the right to die. If we are ever given the right to die it won't be compulsory, so there is no need for the people that don't want such a right to stand in the way of the people that do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itrytoplease Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Is there one post on this thread from someone who is A - old B- Disabled C- dying, you all seem to be either young or fit and healthy. I have COPD I'm 62 and it's getting worse, Walking is a bit of a pain, but............ I witnessed my friends father die from emphysema, not a pleasant site, wheelchair bound and rigged up with an oxygen bottle etc. to tired to talk, he weighed about 5 stone. not to dissimilar from what I have, If you think I'm going through that, you can think again. what's the normal inquest verdict " suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed" lol my mind would have to be seriously disturbed to willingly suffer that torment. I'll vote YES to being allowed to end your pain/torment and if help is required then so be it. The Dog synopsis at the start or this thread has been widely used, but it shouldn't/doesn't make it any less true. I'd like to hear from people in the same position, rather than the If, brigade - I don't mean to offend, and all discussion is welcome but I think their opinions would count just a little bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Ok, how many secretly bullied and cajoled grannies are you happy to let quaff their final mug of death juice? 10 a year? 100? I bring it up as it's often the reason why we don't do the death penalty - mistakes. And what's the bar set at? Terminal cancer? Locked in syndrome? Arthritis (I believe dignitas let a woman with nothing more than arthritis kill themselves). Which is far better than jumping in front of a bus or train, if someone wants to die it is far better if it is done in a controlled way. ---------- Post added 19-01-2014 at 09:53 ---------- Doesn't some legislation somewhere say that people have right to pain relief? In which case isn't the dose increased as a terminal patient has to cope with more and more pain? I would have thought that eventually the amount needed to control the pain exceeds what the body can tolerate, and the patient dies relatively peacefully. Unfortunately pain relief doesn't work for everyone, meaning 5% to 10% of people will suffer unnecessary pain at the end of their life. ---------- Post added 19-01-2014 at 10:04 ---------- I always feel sorry for the old guys who maybe don't have a great quality of life, but I imagine myself in that situation...might not have the best life but not necessarily wanting to die either, but I'd feel like a burden to my family and the nurses and maybe feel under pressure to end my life sooner than I'd actually want to. Keeping assisted suicide illegal doesn't stop you feeling like a burden and ending your life, pressure from family to kill yourself isn't a valid reason to prevent assisted suicide, because most people can end their own life at any time they like. If someone really wants to end their life, they can usually do it one way or another, except for rare cases of locked in syndrome and the likes. Precisely, most people can end their life when they want, so why prevent the people that can't from ending their life. I just think in the vast majority of cases, if you really want to die you will find a way. If it became legal you'd just get a bunch of OAPs who are terminally ill but with a bit of time left saying "Tell you what, I've probably got a few weeks in me and I might well have a better time than I would if I was dead, but I don't want to put my family out, I don't want to put the nurses out...the carers are probably annoyed at me because I keep asking for painkillers, just do me in.". So yeah I think assisted suicide should remain illegal in England. So everyone can take their life when ever they like, apart form the people that are incapable of taking their own life, that seams a little unfair. ---------- Post added 19-01-2014 at 10:12 ---------- No you don't. You remove the right for them to be assisted. Which effectively removes the right of some people ending their life. Suicide isn't illegal, some people are unable to kill them selves so are prevented from doing what the majority have the right to do, sounds like discrimination based on someones disability, If a disable person can't get do the legal things that everyone else can do, they are usually assisted by someone that can. Why should suicide be any different? ---------- Post added 19-01-2014 at 10:18 ---------- You still seem to believe that people are not already free to kill themselves if they wish... The point you keep missing is that some people can't kill themselves despite wanting to die. ---------- Post added 19-01-2014 at 10:28 ---------- Don't expect other people to be like yourself, especially on such sensitive subjects as deaths. But there are plenty of people like Jmack, all able bodied people have the right to die when they want, they can jump in front of a bus, off a bridge, a small minority can't so require assistance, you want to deny that assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 :rolleyes:How can someone with locked in syndrome kill themselves without assistance. How can someone who is paralysed from the neck down kill themselves without assistance. It only takes a few seconds of pretty basic thinking to realise not everyone is free to kill themselves. You're confusing not capable of doing it, with not free to do it. I'm free to walk out of the house and fly by flapping my arms, I'm not capable of doing it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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