flamingjimmy Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Perhaps you didn't see the editing of my post which the poster created, substituting the word "those" for "women". As you're aware 'those' is a demonstrative pronoun used to refer to things which have been previously mentioned ie 'women I've worked with'. Quite right I guess, your wording was not brilliant though you see where the confusion came from. I'm still very doubtful though, isn't it a bit insulting to every other working person to suggest that people who take maternity leave somehow magically make up for it by being much better the rest of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Perhaps you didn't see the editing of my post which the poster created, substituting the word "those" for "women". As you're aware 'those' is a demonstrative pronoun used to refer to things which have been previously mentioned ie 'women I've worked with'. So you're making generalisations, based on your own experience? But then have a go at anybody who does like wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 So you're making generalisations, based on your own experience? But then have a go at anybody who does like wise. To be precise he generalised about the people he knew, not the the wider group to which they belong. It may be implied that he would apply it to a wider group but not specified by him, and he appears to be denying it. Just to clarify BF you're not suggesting that generally people who take maternity leave make up for it by being better/working harder than all other people the rest of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimp27 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 So you're making generalisations, based on your own experience? But then have a go at anybody who does like wise. That's about the jist of it, or is it gist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Not really, he was talking about a specific sector. Did you used to work in the City? How can a woman who has had for example 2 babies so therefore a couple of years off expect to be in the same position as a man who has been working through those 2 years? As for UKIP being a threat, they are only a threat to the Tories as they will split their vote. They will win 1 or 2 seats at the most. I've worked and owned businesses which operate in highly competitive environments, proliferated by alpha males, I didn't have time for golf and leisurely lunches where my male colleagues would tend to spend much of their working days 'affiliating', so I've seen at first hand, in a career spanning over 30 years incidentally, how the sexes differ in their approach to work. My interest was commercial, rather than social so people were measured on performance, it isn't just a finger in the air kind of observation. My earlier post was to challenge the stereotypical notion that women aren't worth as much as men in the city workplace. If that's the case then it's no wonder we lag behind so many of our international competitors. ---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 13:37 ---------- To be precise he generalised about the people he knew, not the the wider group to which they belong. It may be implied that he would apply it to a wider group but not specified by him, and he appears to be denying it. Just to clarify BF you're not suggesting that generally people who take maternity leave make up for it by being better/working harder than all other people the rest of the time? To be fair I did say 'generally' not 'all' in respect of those people I knew..what I can say though unequivocally is that my female associates and employees were not valued any less because they made as much money for the business as their male counterparts and that was all that interested me. ---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 13:40 ---------- So you're making generalisations, based on your own experience? But then have a go at anybody who does like wise. No, I'm not making any generalisations because I'm not claiming all women or women on maternity leave are as effective as men. However my experience proves Farage's observations are misguided, because I can point him to many women who 'should' be worth more than men in the city and I doubt my experiences are unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertramp Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I've worked and owned businesses which operate in highly competitive environments, proliferated by alpha males, I didn't have time for golf and leisurely lunches where my male colleagues would tend to spend much of their working days 'affiliating', so I've seen at first hand, in a career spanning over 30 years incidentally, how the sexes differ in their approach to work. My interest was commercial, rather than social so people were measured on performance, it isn't just a finger in the air kind of observation. My earlier post was to challenge the stereotypical notion that women aren't worth as much as men in the city workplace. If that's the case then it's no wonder we lag behind so many of our international competitors. ---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 13:37 ---------- To be fair I did say 'generally' not 'all' in respect of those people I knew..what I can say though unequivocally is that my female associates and employees were not valued any less because they made as much money for the business as their male counterparts and that was all that interested me. But Farage didn't say that women aren't worth as much so what are you on about? He said '"I think that young, able women who are prepared to sacrifice the family life and stick with their careers do as well, if not better, than men." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Quite right I guess, your wording was not brilliant though you see where the confusion came from. Not at all, unless you don't understand the meaning of the word 'those' in that context! I'm still very doubtful though, isn't it a bit insulting to every other working person to suggest that people who take maternity leave somehow magically make up for it by being much better the rest of the time? Frankly I think it's far more insulting to claim women on maternity leave are valued less than their male counterparts when the evidence of my own eyes suggests that view shouldn't be the default one. ---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 13:46 ---------- But Farage didn't say that women aren't worth as much so what are you on about? He said '"I think that young, able women who are prepared to sacrifice the family life and stick with their careers do as well, if not better, than men." Perhaps you haven't followed the chain of dialogue I was addressing which started with this contribution: Nigel Farage: Working women who take maternity leave are 'worth less' than men to city employers http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-women-ukip-leader-3042606 ---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 13:48 ---------- So you agree with Nigel then, quote Nigel Farage "I think that young, able women who are prepared to sacrifice the family life and stick with their careers do as well, if not better, than men." Wait while you get hit over the head with a placard for saying it. I don't believe anyone, male or female has to sacrifice family life in order to be successful, in my own case being an expectant father proved to be a great motivator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 What BF said was about women who took maternity leave being as good as men. Farage said that women who took maternity leave were worth less than men. "In many, many cases, women make different choices in life to the ones that men make simply for biological reasons," he said. "If a woman has a client base and has a child and takes two or three years off work, she is worth far less to the employer when she comes back than when she goes away because her client base cannot be stuck rigidly to her." Resorting to telling porkies are you. He's stating the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertramp Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Not at all, unless you don't understand the meaning of the word 'those' in that context! Frankly I think it's far more insulting to claim women on maternity leave are valued less than their male counterparts when the evidence of my own eyes suggests that view shouldn't be the default one. ---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 13:46 ---------- Perhaps you haven't followed the chain of dialogue I was addressing which started with this contribution: ---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 13:48 ---------- I don't believe anyone, male or female has to sacrifice family life in order to be successful, in my own case being an expectant father proved to be a great motivator. So did you take a year off when you were an expectant father? Like usual on SF people compare apples and knickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 So did you take a year off when you were an expectant father? Like usual on SF people compare apples and knickers. I worked 3 days a week and my wife of the time went back to work for 2 days, incidentally she went on to found her own business and took time off to have a second child, which didn't detract from her effectiveness. Like usual on SF people don't care to look at people as individuals preferring to adhere to lazy stereotypes and generalisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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