Why do people white lie ?

[salsafan]

Or they can be honest and say "Yes baby, you did eat a lot while we were on holiday and we did not go to the gym together for like 2 weeks now. Maybe that is why. Don't be upset. Let me make you a cuppa tea." He was there, he saw what happened. He is not lying.

 

Instead, some people go, "PROOF IT. GODDAMN IT. PROVE TO ME THAT YOU GOT THE FACTS RIGHT AND THE MEASUREMENTS RIGHT. GODDAMN IT. PROVE IT."

 

I just wondered where the person got the facts from that the lady's facts are wrong. When really it is her own body and she noticed that she had bulged a little and did not know why.

 

There is no reason to white lie. Cos your intents were different to begin with. Isn't life about finding that sweet win-win spot ?

[aliceBB]

I think a lot of so called education is based on a lie, which is that everyone's efforts and talents are equally valid. Maybe they should be, but a lot of kids soon find this isn't the case in the 'real' world. This is an example of a damaging lie made to make teaching diverse groups of children easier, but it doesn't do them any favours.

 

That's very unhelpful - kids who aren't going to achieve much despite their best efforts need their confidence building just as much (if not more) than naturally talented high-fliers. It is perfectly possible to instil a sense of pride [in their hard work and achievement] in all students (of any age) and 'validate' their efforts regardless of absolute 'results'. It is in no way a 'damaging lie'.

 

They're not daft - they know that some people's exam results will be higher than theirs, that some pupils will go on to be neurosurgeons or merchant bankers and that some will do menial jobs that are much less prestigious or well-paid. But if they've worked hard despite finding it a struggle, that is in itself a valid reason to celebrate and something you can put on a reference. No teacher these days tells a kid who is heading for a Grade G that they are going to get a C or an A, but they do encourage them to achieve their personal best and guide them towards realistic choices post-16.

 

Would you rather we told non-academically gifted kids that they are rubbish compared with others and not to bother? How would that do them any favours?!

[willman]

You seem to have missed the point of the thread, which distinguishes between lies and white lies. See Cyclone's definition, below.

 

I am not sure what you think parents 'cause such a stink about', exactly. At the vast majority of school sports days there are winners and losers (nobody disputes that) and the contribution of everyone who participates (regardless of achievement) is celebrated. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

You implied that it was the 'real' reason for participation and that the other justifications parents come up with are simply face-saving fudges.

 

In any case, it would not be a lie of any kind tell your child that it is the taking part that matters more [than winning] if you genuinely believe that (which, fortunately, lots of people do). Lies are distortions of objective truth/fact, but an opinion in itself (e.g. the taking part is the important thing) cannot be a lie as it cannot be proved or disproved. Only the facts used to support it can be challenged from an objective standpoint.

 

The intended implication was that parents tell children white lies to save their feelings - they either lie or they don't. Just like the first posts said - to save someones feelings.

So tell them the truth from the start - there should be no distinction between lies.

 

If i'm honest white lies are for the liars benefit more often than not.

 

If a child has to have his/her jabs do you lie to them that they won't hurt?

Why should your partner be upset with "you" if they've put weight on?

[Super Hans]

There is no reason to white lie. Cos your intents were different to begin with. Isn't life about finding that sweet win-win spot ?

 

No, you're over simplifying it, in real life if you told a loved one they put on weight they'd get upset, or certainly mine would...and people don't usually want to upset the people they love.

 

So if they ask if they put weight on you say no, and find another way of getting round it like suggesting you go to the gym together to get healthier, or you suggest we start using healthier options in our meals.

 

Imagine if you couldn't white lie, you ring up call centres and they say "Thank's for calling, pleased to help". Is that guy on minimum wage pleased to help you when you've just spent an hour moaning at him? No.

 

Do you really think the people who wish you merry christmas, actually care if you have a merry christmas? No, they don't...it's a nice thing to say.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to live in your magical little world where you go around and everybody is thinking lovely things about each other, but in reality that is not how the world works. If someone looks at you and you're fat, or ugly, or smelly, or ill-dressed, or stupid...that's exactly what they're thinking, and nobody wants to live in a world where people just go around saying this to each other.

 

Evolution has worked it all out for you, if you don't lie...you get eaten, or you don't get a mate...the reason lies are around is because it's a beneficial trait in our behaviour, if it wasn't then we wouldn't have evolved to do it.

 

I used to really hate going round to my family's at Christmas because they would be unnecessarily blunt, "You've put on weight, your hair looks daft, your girlfriend's ugly" - over time I stopped going there because of it. If they told white lies I'd probably still see them.

 

And where does it stop? Do you tell kids that Santa doesn't exist? Do you tell terminally ill patients that in 2 months they'll be rotting in the ground?

[aliceBB]

The intended implication was that parents tell children white lies to save their feelings - they either lie or they don't. Just like the first posts said - to save someones feelings.

But you have lost the point there. If a parent believes that winning is not the most important thing and they tell their child that, how is that a lie?

 

So tell them the truth from the start - there should be no distinction between lies.

There are sometimes situations where it can prevent (or delay) distress to tell a lie; it may be the lesser of two evils. For example, after a short illness, my father died early in the morning the day of my daughter's last A level examination. We chose not to tell her until after the exam, as she would have been extremely upset and would have found it very difficult to do herself justice. She needed an A in that exam to get into medical school. So that morning, when she asked if he was OK, we said he was still poorly, but willing her to do well. She went off and did well. We told her the truth later, and she says she was glad we delayed telling her the bad news.

 

Was that morally acceptable, or should we have told her the truth?

 

If i'm honest white lies are for the liars benefit more often than not.

What has made you arrive at that conclusion, exactly?

If a child has to have his/her jabs do you lie to them that they won't hurt?

Why should your partner be upset with "you" if they've put weight on?

I agree with you that in such situations honesty is generally the best policy.

[willman]

But surely an honest response to some questions is better than a lie.

 

Whether people think i'm fat ,stupid or ugly or all three is irrelevant. No one else would have the need to tell me they think any of these things UNLESS i asked. If i ask i want an honest answer.

 

Wishing a merry xmas isn't a white lie, its a greeting just like good afternoon. If you don't wish anyone that don't say it.

I seldom ask anyone(who i don't know well) if they had a good holiday 'cos i don't care. I'm happy to chat about them if they've a mind to and i always tell them to have a great time 'cos i mean it.

I've been a sales rep for 20 years it doesn't pay to lie at all.

[aliceBB]

But surely an honest response to some questions is better than a lie.

 

....

 

I've been a sales rep for 20 years it doesn't pay to lie at all.

 

Then I would be interested in your response to the question I out to you in my last post (morally acceptable, &C, see emboldened bit).

[salsafan]

...

 

If a child has to have his/her jabs do you lie to them that they won't hurt?

Why should your partner be upset with "you" if they've put weight on?

No you shouldn't lie to the child that it will not hurt, but you should warn them that it may hurt, and if so, then they need to do xyz so that it won't hurt as much. This is more humane and it builds trust too.

 

A partner should not be upset with you because they have put weight on. But most women are upset with their partners on different reasons than what the partner thinks it is related to. They want to be understood, and not because they want to be told lies.

 

It is never a case of literal understanding of "do I look big in this". It is always a case of "does this piece of clothing fit me correctly to match my exact body shape" ?

 

There are a lot more development now in the clothing industry because the knowledge is more widespread. Different women are measured, their body shapes are actually different, so better clothing shape or the sizes have come out of the woodwork. e.g. apple, pear, vertical, etc etc.

 

So in those circumstance, if a man say "no, you do not look fat" when really she meant "does this fit me perfectly", this leaves room for argument and misunderstanding. The frustration is not that he did answer lovingly (loving or accusing? if women are as literal too, then she can say this is accusative) but that he answered or misunderstood her wrongly. Nothing worst than someone misconstruing you and imply that you are also a liar.

 

What also do not happen is, men never asks "have I understood you correctly". It is always assumed that a woman needs to think like a man, and understand his intent, along with her intent, and so forth. This is why most women are frustrated and then to console with her female friends for understanding and empathy. If this was understood by both sexes, then we would not have a problem at all.

[Bypassblade]

Definitely to prevent hurting someone's feelings...

 

... great idea for a thread by the way!

 

What Mr Bloke says spot on

[Super Hans]

But surely an honest response to some questions is better than a lie.

 

Whether people think i'm fat ,stupid or ugly or all three is irrelevant. No one else would have the need to tell me they think any of these things UNLESS i asked. If i ask i want an honest answer.

 

Wishing a merry xmas isn't a white lie, its a greeting just like good afternoon. If you don't wish anyone that don't say it.

I seldom ask anyone(who i don't know well) if they had a good holiday 'cos i don't care. I'm happy to chat about them if they've a mind to and i always tell them to have a great time 'cos i mean it.

I've been a sales rep for 20 years it doesn't pay to lie at all.

 

It does, if I help someone for half an hour in my job and they end up spending £50, if I didn't lie I'd say "You've wasted my time, I was busy, I had stuff to do, I could have been helping people who were going to spend 10 times as much...don't come back".

 

It doesn't work that way because I'd be fired if I did that. And the customer would feel bad, the company might lose business in the long run.

 

So instead I say "No trouble it's been a pleasure" - I lie to them.