Why do people white lie ?

[Mr Bloke]

I've been a sales rep for 20 years it doesn't pay to lie at all.

:hihi:

Then you sir are a credit to your profession and unlike any other salesman I have ever had the pleasure to do business with!

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 17:02 ----------

 

What Mr Bloke says spot on

I bet you're just saying that!

 

 

(Hi Pete - hope you're doing OK! )

[willman]

But you have lost the point there. If a parent believes that winning is not the most important thing and they tell their child that, how is that a lie?

 

There are sometimes situations where it can prevent (or delay) distress to tell a lie; it may be the lesser of two evils. For example, after a short illness, my father died early in the morning the day of my daughter's last A level examination. We chose not to tell her until after the exam, as she would have been extremely upset and would have found it very difficult to do herself justice. She needed an A in that exam to get into medical school. So that morning, when she asked if he was OK, we said he was still poorly, but willing her to do well. She went off and did well. We told her the truth later, and she says she was glad we delayed telling her the bad news.

 

Was that morally acceptable, or should we have told her the truth?

 

What has made you arrive at that conclusion, exactly?

I agree with you that in such situations honesty is generally the best policy.

 

Look at the examples given - person scared of telling partner they're fat,me under selling how much i paid for something.The reason to protect ourselves from the furore telling the truth would cause.

 

In your unhappy case, you can't second guess your daughters perfomance in her exam. I'm not claiming anything is immoral or wrong just that a lie is a lie and it shouldn't be dressed up to be anything less.You most likely told a lie potentially to protect yourself from the repercussions if your daughter had failed as well as protecting her in the first instance.

[Mecky]

Why do people lie, or tell white lies ? What do you think ?

Self preservation? Pride? Diplomacy?

 

Why do you do it?

[willman]

It does, if I help someone for half an hour in my job and they end up spending £50, if I didn't lie I'd say "You've wasted my time, I was busy, I had stuff to do, I could have been helping people who were going to spend 10 times as much...don't come back".

 

It doesn't work that way because I'd be fired if I did that. And the customer would feel bad, the company might lose business in the long run.

 

So instead I say "No trouble it's been a pleasure" - I lie to them.

 

Why do you have to say anything?

Not telling the truth is based on your perception that you could have achieved more. Why have they wasted your time ?, you're paid to help them or provide a service.

[salsafan]

Why do you do it?

 

To be honest, I don't think I have white lied so much. I know that my intent had differed to others, and even when trying to bridge the gaps, the other person do not necessarily work with me on that. So I take a timeout.

 

The only other times I have whited lie and it stays with me was to my own father whom I had to lie about his illness. As well as my grandmother. So that she can not worry as much. Her mood lifted. But I also know that she already knew the worst because it was her insistence to go with her to the hospital to get herself checked out.

 

Have I misjudged a situation even at work ? Yes. Have I misplaced loyalties and my own stupidities, absolutely yes. Have I been lied to directly and so forth, yes. I could always tell. I often have been told to "play the game". What bloomin game. If people are honest, build trusts, there should be no games. In that context, have I seen people misjudged a situation too? Yes, I have.

[aliceBB]

Look at the examples given - person scared of telling partner they're fat,me under selling how much i paid for something.The reason to protect ourselves from the furore telling the truth would cause.

Not much to disagree with there

 

In your unhappy case, you can't second guess your daughters perfomance in her exam.

Not sure what you're saying here

 

I'm not claiming anything is immoral or wrong just that a lie is a lie and it shouldn't be dressed up to be anything less.

But that implies that all lies are of equal moral validity (or lack of). Most people would agree that lying is usually wrong, because it is harmful. It's a form of stealing - it robs people of the truth (it's generally agreed that we have a right to the truth). Even self-delusion is wrong because we are lying to ourselves and that affects how we deal with/approach others. However... on the one hand you are saying it's nothing to do with morality, yet on the other, that a lie shouldn't be 'dressed up to be something else', which suggests strongly that you think deception in itself is wrong, whatever the circumstances.

 

What we are trying to establish is whether [given that most people would accept that telling untruths is wrong], it is ever right to do so and if not, why do people do it?

 

You most likely told a lie potentially to protect yourself from the repercussions if your daughter had failed as well as protecting her in the first instance

Wrong. Our only concern was that she should not be knocked off course at a crucial time. There would have been no repercussions for us; it was our daughter's exam, not ours. I sometimes wonder what we would have had to do if he had died the day of her first exam, not her last. We would have had to tell her and she would have been affected badly at a time when she needed to face the world. In the end, we would have supported her whatever the outcome, but for her sake, not ours.

 

In the end our instincts about lying seem to be Biblical : Thou shalt not lie, it's sinful, so when we do, we feel guilty (or most of us do, anyway). We have to have a very strong reason for lying and even then we feel uneasy about it.

 

Perhaps if we ditched the 10 commandments (we ignore most of them anyway) and adopted the Buddhist principle which is simply 'Do no harm', we would live better.

 

What should a doctor do whose patient tells him that she does not want to be told if she is terminally ill?

[Super Hans]

Why do you have to say anything?

Not telling the truth is based on your perception that you could have achieved more. Why have they wasted your time ?, you're paid to help them or provide a service.

 

You should watch Curb your Enthusiasm...Larry tells the total truth to basically everyone he meets, it makes for a funny show because of the comically bad situations this leads him into.

 

Again, the writers can write that his friends forgive him, or that he doesn't get punched in the face. Real life doesn't work that way.

[Epic Fail]

"No that dress doesn't make your ass look big. Your ass is just big anyway."

[willman]

Not much to disagree with there

 

Not sure what you're saying here

 

But that implies that all lies are of equal moral validity (or lack of). Most people would agree that lying is usually wrong, becausue it is harmful. It's a form of stealing - it robs people of the truth (it's generally agreed that we have a right to the truth). Even self-delusion is wrong because we are lying to ourselves and that affects how we deal with/approach others. However... on the one hand you are saying it's nothing to do with morality, yet on the other, that a lie shouldn't be 'dressed up to be something else', which suggests strongly that you think deception in itself is wrong, whatever the circumstances.

 

What we are trying to establish is whether [given that most people would accept that telling untruths is wrong], it is ever right to do so and if not, why do people do it?

 

Wrong. Our only concern was that she should not be knocked off course at a crucial time. There would have been no repercussions for us; it was our daughter's exam, not ours. I soimetimes wonder what we would have had to do if he had died the day of her first exam, not her last. We would have had to tell her and she would have been affected badly at a time when she needed to face the world. In the end, we would have supported her whatever the outcome, but for her sake, not ours.

 

I appreciate your candour but you honestly never had one thought of the state your daughter would be in had she failed and the consequences to you and the family if she failed?

The repercussions would be consoling her,tears,what if's, and then building her up for a resit wouldn't they?

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 17:31 ----------

 

Not much to disagree with there

 

Not sure what you're saying here

 

But that implies that all lies are of equal moral validity (or lack of). Most people would agree that lying is usually wrong, because it is harmful. It's a form of stealing - it robs people of the truth (it's generally agreed that we have a right to the truth). Even self-delusion is wrong because we are lying to ourselves and that affects how we deal with/approach others. However... on the one hand you are saying it's nothing to do with morality, yet on the other, that a lie shouldn't be 'dressed up to be something else', which suggests strongly that you think deception in itself is wrong, whatever the circumstances.

 

What we are trying to establish is whether [given that most people would accept that telling untruths is wrong], it is ever right to do so and if not, why do people do it?

 

Wrong. Our only concern was that she should not be knocked off course at a crucial time. There would have been no repercussions for us; it was our daughter's exam, not ours. I sometimes wonder what we would have had to do if he had died the day of her first exam, not her last. We would have had to tell her and she would have been affected badly at a time when she needed to face the world. In the end, we would have supported her whatever the outcome, but for her sake, not ours.

 

In the end our instincts about lying seem to be Biblical : Thou shalt not lie, it's sinful, so when we do, we feel guilty (or most of us do, anyway). We have to have a very strong reason for lying and even then we feel uneasy about it.

 

Perhaps if we ditched the 10 commandments (we ignore most of them anyway) and adopted the Buddhist principle which is simply 'Do no harm', we would live better.

 

What should a doctor do whose patient tells him that she does not want to be told if she is terminally ill?

 

Not lie to his patient.

[aliceBB]

I appreciate your candour but you honestly never had one thought of the state your daughter would be in had she failed and the consequences to you and the family if she failed?

No. As a teacher I knew that the exam board would have probably granted her special consideration, but we reasoned that by delaying breaking the news for four hours, we could spare her the stress of that process.

 

We brought our kids up to accept responsibility for their own progress and to have a plan B. If she'd had to defer Uni for a year, it would have all the same to us. There would have been no great 'consequences for the family'.

 

The repercussions would be consoling her,tears,what if's, and then building her up for a resit wouldn't they?

Possibly, but that would've still have been the situationeven if my dad hadn't died but she'd done less well than she hoped in the exam - it happens. Families cope. If she'd had to resit she would not have needed 'building up'. She was pretty independent, motivated and and well-organised.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2014 at 18:44 ----------

 

 

Not lie to his patient.

 

Actually, in practice it rarely happens that a doctor is put in a situation where he feels he must lie to a patient. What is more common is that the patient forbids the doctor to tell their spouse/partner anything too upsetting, .e.g that they (ie the patient) are terminally ill/permanently paralysed, etc., because the truth would be too distressing for the partner.

 

So when the patient's wife says 'What's the prognosis, doctor?', what does he say?