Mister M Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I have no definition because I hate the use of "class".. if it's subjective then it's meaningless because it will be different for different people..you may think someone middle class while I think the same person is working class.. If someone had a railway man and nurse for parents,had no degree yet became a bank manager what would that make them? Similarly if someones's parents were lawyers yet they themselves worked as a labourer in a factory what would they be? I think there is an element of truth in what you're saying. I frequently get annoyed on here when people stereotype and generalise about the so called 'underclass', like they're all benefit scrougers and chavs. I think class can be useful in certain contexts, but sometimes it can be used as a stick to beat others with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I doubt it can recover enough to ever pay this debt, it's growing faster than we can earn it, there's that thing about percentage of GDP. It's higher now than it's ever been including 2 world wars which were pretty expensive. I've mentioned this before to you. http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html It's been as much as 250% before - the Napoleonic Wars and just after WW2. It is much less than that at present and will start falling within the next couple of years, especially if the IMF growth figures are accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Do you reckon that if people had to pay to go to state schools that they'd actually do this instead of going to a private school? If you have to pay you may as well go to which school you think is best for the cash hadn't you? I think some believe passionately in the state school system and wouldn't want to 'buy' into the private system. And then there is a small minority that would gag at the tought of their kid going to a state school. Private school fees can be astronomical, and they don't include the many enrichment activities that parents often have to fork out for once their child is at school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think some believe passionately in the state school system and wouldn't want to 'buy' into the private system. And then there is a small minority that would gag at the tought of their kid going to a state school. Private school fees can be astronomical, and they don't include the many enrichment activities that parents often have to fork out for once their child is at school. My point is that if people were forced to pay for state schooling then their opinions as to which system was better may change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I have no definition because I hate the use of "class".. if it's subjective then it's meaningless because it will be different for different people..you may think someone middle class while I think the same person is working class.. If someone had a railway man and nurse for parents,had no degree yet became a bank manager what would that make them? Similarly if someones's parents were lawyers yet they themselves worked as a labourer in a factory what would they be? You don't provide enough information to determine. But whether they are a professional or not is certainly important, and much more so than what their parents were. ---------- Post added 22-01-2014 at 15:40 ---------- I don't see it as a derailment..As "middle class" is used in the thread title wouldn't we be as well knowing who we were talking about? The article quite clearly defines who would have to pay. And it's all about income, nothing to do with class. So if all you want to clarify is who would have to pay, then just read the article. (Families earning 80k+ was part that I remember). ---------- Post added 22-01-2014 at 15:48 ---------- I doubt it can recover enough to ever pay this debt, it's growing faster than we can earn it, there's that thing about percentage of GDP. It's higher now than it's ever been, including 2 world wars which were pretty expensive. AFAIK none of that is true. The deficit is falling and will be <0 (ie into surplus) in the next few years. And the debt as a % of GDP is massively below that at the end of the 2nd world war. I agree entirely on your second point. The only way we can make a dent in it is by clamping down on tax evasion and tax avoidance. But basically I don't think it can ever be paid, it will either have to be written off, or the world economy collapsing will do the trick. In spite of evidence to the contrary, can't see that happening. I disagree, there is nothing unusual or extreme about our level of debt. Re Education: Free education is a relatively new thing, it doesn't have a long historical precedence. I believe my grandmother (working class) had to pay a penny a day to attend school, and in Victorian times, before the education act, Mill owners etc used to set up schools to provide education for their child workers. The cost was often docked from their wages. Free and equal education is however part of being a modern 1st world country, the more free and equal, the better IMO. ---------- Post added 22-01-2014 at 15:49 ---------- My point is that if people were forced to pay for state schooling then their opinions as to which system was better may change... I tend to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Free and equal education is however part of being a modern 1st world country, the more free and equal, the better IMO. ---------- Post added 22-01-2014 at 15:49 ---------- So is healthcare, but look what's happening to our NHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Free and equal education is however part of being a modern 1st world country, the more free and equal, the better IMO.So is healthcare, but look what's happening to our NHSWhat about the NHS? Is it being bled dry by middle class managerial types with an over-inflated sense of entitlement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Free and equal education is however part of being a modern 1st world country, the more free and equal, the better IMO. ---------- Post added 22-01-2014 at 15:49 ---------- So is healthcare, but look what's happening to our NHS Oh let me guess - more handwringing about how terrible that is? What's wrong with the NHS then? Despite being funded with more money than it's ever had..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Oh let me guess - more handwringing about how terrible that is? What's wrong with the NHS then? Despite being funded with more money than it's ever had..? With the exception of dental work (which is still wrong IMHO) what Nhs treatment do we have to pay for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Prescriptions (and there are many exemptions for those on low income, those of senior age, pregnant etc - and the limit is capped at £120 a year or thereabouts for all others) Road accidents - paid for by your insurance. Erm, no, nowt apart from dental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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