Anna B Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 With the exception of dental work (which is still wrong IMHO) what Nhs treatment do we have to pay for? There are still waiting lists in the NHS so if you want a prompt diagnosis which may be crucial, go private. Need to go into a nursing Home? - pay for it by selling your house. That's privatisation by anyone's standards. Stay in your own home, pay for home help. (Paying for it doesn't mean you'll get it.) Drugs: From tonight's paper - 'Thousands of patients are being denied potentially life-saving drugs, even after they have been approved for NHS use, according to the HSCIC (Health and Social Care Information Centre.) Latest figures show that even when it approves drugs as cost-effective and issues positive guidance to the NHS, patients are failing to get them, due to a postcode lottery' Drugs for Osteoporosis, Macular Degeneration, and various cancers (1 in 3 Kidney cancer patients eligible to receive either Sunitinib or Pazopanib are not getting it.) Or alternativly, go private. Mental health problem? Help hard to com by. Unless you pay for it. And many other examples. Several areas of NHS are so poor, people have to pay if they want a decent service. The NHS is becoming slowly privatised. Now people think that to get a decent education they have to pay and go private. We have to pay for University, this is just taking it one step further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Competition for grammar school places is fierce. We should build more grammar schools to make more grammar school places available. Spot the barn-door-sized flaw in that argument! As for what 'middle class' means : There are all sorts of complex sociological models one can apply if one is very boring; alternatively, try this short 'Yes' or 'No' quiz. You must be honest and it works best if you answer instinctively, i.e. without thinking about it too much. Q1. Do you think parents should be allowed to take their school-age kids away on holiday during term time? Q2. Do you regularly holiday in the UK by choice, as well as abroad? (Answer No if you holiday in the UK to save money but would prefer to holiday abroad). Q3. Do you believe that your kids (or young people generally) will be at a career disadvantage if they do not go to University? Q4. Can you cook meals using fresh ingredients? Q5. Have you ever studied a modern foreign European language to GCSE or beyond? Q2-5 inclusive : Award yourself 2 points for each 'Yes' answer and 0 for each 'No answer'. Score? Now add 4 points if you answered 'No' to Q1 but deduct 4 if you answered 'Yes'. Resulting overall score will be from -4 to +12. The closer to +12 you are, the more middle class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm not giving myself excuses. The middle class kids were in on an evening doing their homework. We on the other hand were round each others houses listening to music, at a youth club twisting ankles to Northern Soul, hanging about alleyways or trying to get served in pubs aged 14. We still got to university but we didn't become boring tosspots who know a lot about further maths but haven't enjoyed life that much. I apologise. I meant that as a general comment and not as a direct comment to yourself. I was also the same too. Whilst I was not let out to play on my own in the streets and be a nuisance to others, I did play with my cousins or my school friends in their homes and I learnt to be respectful to other people's properties. I guess this gave me that balance in life when I was younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASGOWOODS Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Fine, don't listen..... Aaah! Put ya dum dums back in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 The Grammar School: A Secret History. 8pm on BBC Four this evening on TV. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0197znp It's a repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The Grammar School: A Secret History. 8pm on BBC Four this evening on TV. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0197znp It's a repeat. Very interesting. My Mum got a place at Grammar school in the early 1940s but she couldn't go as my Grandma couldn't afford the uniform. She left school at 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 The thing about the middle classes and Grammar schools, is the discipline. They are an institutions where students want to learn, are well behaved and they respect their teachers. Compare any Grammar school to 'Educating Yorkshire'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Oh let me guess - more handwringing about how terrible that is? What's wrong with the NHS then? Despite being funded with more money than it's ever had..? The government certainly seemed to be involved in a propaganda effort in order to set things up for privatisation. ---------- Post added 23-01-2014 at 08:21 ---------- May I ask a very stupid question. Is there a difference between the "working class" to that of a "middle class" in this day and age ? Yes, otherwise the definition wouldn't exist. ---------- Post added 23-01-2014 at 08:25 ---------- Spot the barn-door-sized flaw in that argument! As for what 'middle class' means : There are all sorts of complex sociological models one can apply if one is very boring; alternatively, try this short 'Yes' or 'No' quiz. You must be honest and it works best if you answer instinctively, i.e. without thinking about it too much. Q1. Do you think parents should be allowed to take their school-age kids away on holiday during term time? Q2. Do you regularly holiday in the UK by choice, as well as abroad? (Answer No if you holiday in the UK to save money but would prefer to holiday abroad). Q3. Do you believe that your kids (or young people generally) will be at a career disadvantage if they do not go to University? Q4. Can you cook meals using fresh ingredients? Q5. Have you ever studied a modern foreign European language to GCSE or beyond? Q2-5 inclusive : Award yourself 2 points for each 'Yes' answer and 0 for each 'No answer'. Score? Now add 4 points if you answered 'No' to Q1 but deduct 4 if you answered 'Yes'. Resulting overall score will be from -4 to +12. The closer to +12 you are, the more middle class. That's about the single worst 'definition' of middle class that I've ever seen. ---------- Post added 23-01-2014 at 08:26 ---------- I apologise. I meant that as a general comment and not as a direct comment to yourself. I was also the same too. Whilst I was not let out to play on my own in the streets and be a nuisance to others, I did play with my cousins or my school friends in their homes and I learnt to be respectful to other people's properties. I guess this gave me that balance in life when I was younger. The point is, that you are giving 'advice' about how to do well, when what we are discussing is the statistical fact that middle class children do better in education than working class children. It's a statistic though, not a rule, lots of working class children study hard and do well, lots of middle class children fail for some reason. But higher %'s of middle class children do well than the % of working class children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Spot the barn-door-sized flaw in that argument! As for what 'middle class' means : There are all sorts of complex sociological models one can apply if one is very boring; alternatively, try this short 'Yes' or 'No' quiz. You must be honest and it works best if you answer instinctively, i.e. without thinking about it too much. Q1. Do you think parents should be allowed to take their school-age kids away on holiday during term time? Q2. Do you regularly holiday in the UK by choice, as well as abroad? (Answer No if you holiday in the UK to save money but would prefer to holiday abroad). Q3. Do you believe that your kids (or young people generally) will be at a career disadvantage if they do not go to University? Q4. Can you cook meals using fresh ingredients? Q5. Have you ever studied a modern foreign European language to GCSE or beyond? Q2-5 inclusive : Award yourself 2 points for each 'Yes' answer and 0 for each 'No answer'. Score? Now add 4 points if you answered 'No' to Q1 but deduct 4 if you answered 'Yes'. Resulting overall score will be from -4 to +12. The closer to +12 you are, the more middle class. I'm not sure how that provides a counter argument to the post you replied to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 That's about the single worst 'definition' of middle class that I've ever seen.Quoted for truth. That 'test' puts me squarely into working class, no contest. Near the bottom, at that Yet, according to other definitions in the thread (income, socio-professional classification), I should be comfortably into the middle class slot Let me be all the scroate I can be, says I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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