More good news on the economy..

[truman]

Someone's not heard of the banking crisis from 2007 onwards.

 

The government needs economic growth to be based on more manufacturing and on service growth. Unless we create more wealth people won't have more wealth in their pockets. It's all a bit artificial at the moment.

 

Service sector is leading the growth according to the FT

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/92111dd2-87ff-11e3-a926-00144feab7de.html#axzz2rhLPhkJp

 

and manufacturing is improving

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25575511

[WeX]

eh? Are you taking the mick?

 

Apart from perhaps airports that is a list of abject failure. Even airports have failed to keep track with economic needs and required capacity. And if they do ever expand it requires significant public funds.

 

OK, if that's the case of these, which I listed, can you highlight the tax payer funded handouts they have ALL received:

 

Gas and Electricity

Airports

Public broadcasting

Waste management

Public housing

 

---------- Post added 28-01-2014 at 13:33 ----------

 

I see, it's irrelevant because you don't like it?

 

The fact or fiction that people moan about these companies have zero relation to how much tax funded handouts they have or have not received. I'm sorry you are incapable of understanding the difference.

[Cyclone]

OK, well how about the Gas and Electricity supply industry? Airports and public broadcasting? Waste management and public housing? All of these are public services that were privatised and have gone on to become either profitable or sustainable private companies.

 

The difference with these are that some of them have effective monopolies and have gone on to gouge the public mercilessly for things they have no choice but to pay for. Others still contract directly to local authorities and so are in effect paid for directly by taxation, but have the advantage now of being able to raise prices and pass on the profit to shareholders.

 

And the ones that failed were in more competitive environments or had prices regulated so that they couldn't simply start gouging the public.

[WeX]

Someone's not heard of the banking crisis from 2007 onwards.

 

Banks are not public services and they were never publicly owned. Some became publicly owned but that's a whole different story.

 

---------- Post added 28-01-2014 at 15:14 ----------

 

The difference with these are that some of them have effective monopolies and have gone on to gouge the public mercilessly for things they have no choice but to pay for. Others still contract directly to local authorities and so are in effect paid for directly by taxation, but have the advantage now of being able to raise prices and pass on the profit to shareholders.

 

And the ones that failed were in more competitive environments or had prices regulated so that they couldn't simply start gouging the public.

 

Of my list:

 

Gas and Electricity

Airports

Public broadcasting

Waste management

Public housing

 

That covers the last two. How about the top 3 examples? The OP said "nearly every public service that got privatised". I pointed out that was not the case.

[chalga]

OK, if that's the case of these, which I listed, can you highlight the tax payer funded handouts they have ALL received:

 

Gas and Electricity

 

British Energy?

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Energy

 

On 22 September 2004 the UK government's investment of over £3 billion in the restructured firm was approved by the European Commission. On 24 September the company was reclassified as a public body in what the Office for National Statistics described as a reflection of "the control that can be exercised by government over British Energy". This move was described by The Times as a de facto nationalisation of the group.

In 2007 the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee reported on the restructuring.[15] They noted that the taxpayer had been left to underwrite large liabilities, revalued at £5.3 billion, while creditors who would have received little on liquidation received bonds and shares worth £3.9 billion in 2006.

[WeX]

British Energy?

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Energy

 

On 22 September 2004 the UK government's investment of over £3 billion in the restructured firm was approved by the European Commission. On 24 September the company was reclassified as a public body in what the Office for National Statistics described as a reflection of "the control that can be exercised by government over British Energy". This move was described by The Times as a de facto nationalisation of the group.

In 2007 the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee reported on the restructuring.[15] They noted that the taxpayer had been left to underwrite large liabilities, revalued at £5.3 billion, while creditors who would have received little on liquidation received bonds and shares worth £3.9 billion in 2006.

 

British Energy was a publicly owned company at the time you are quoting. It was sold off in 2007.

[chalga]

British Energy was a publicly owned company at the time you are quoting. It was sold off in 2007.

 

So in 2002,when it approached the British Government,it was in effect approaching its owners?,ok my mistake.

 

The company faced financial trouble from 2002, when it first approached the British government for financial aid. This followed a slump in wholesale energy prices, a failure to obtain relaxations on the Climate Change Levy, and renegotiations of its back-end fuel costs with BNFL,[12] as well as issues with a number of its reactors (resulting in much capacity being offline during critical periods of the company financial crisis) and a failure to complete a timely sale of its joint-venture share in AmerGen. Parties to the resulting talks included bondholders, significant but unsecured creditors, power purchase agreement counterparties, and a group of secured creditors known as the Eggborough banks; who had provided financing for the purchase of the Eggborough coal-fired power plant in 2000.

[WeX]

So in 2002,when it approached the British Government,it was in effect approaching its owners?,ok my mistake.

 

The company faced financial trouble from 2002, when it first approached the British government for financial aid. This followed a slump in wholesale energy prices, a failure to obtain relaxations on the Climate Change Levy, and renegotiations of its back-end fuel costs with BNFL,[12] as well as issues with a number of its reactors (resulting in much capacity being offline during critical periods of the company financial crisis) and a failure to complete a timely sale of its joint-venture share in AmerGen. Parties to the resulting talks included bondholders, significant but unsecured creditors, power purchase agreement counterparties, and a group of secured creditors known as the Eggborough banks; who had provided financing for the purchase of the Eggborough coal-fired power plant in 2000.

 

It would appear that way. I suspect it was run in the same way as the Post Office was. Ran like a private company but the government owned all the shares.

[I1L2T3]

Banks are not public services and they were never publicly owned. Some became publicly owned but that's a whole different story.

 

---------- Post added 28-01-2014 at 15:14 ----------

 

 

Of my list:

 

Gas and Electricity

Airports

Public broadcasting

Waste management

Public housing

 

That covers the last two. How about the top 3 examples? The OP said "nearly every public service that got privatised". I pointed out that was not the case.

 

You pointed it out but you're totally wrong.

 

Electricity: multi-billion pound subsidies dfor new power plants.

Gas: tax breaks.

 

In both cases infrastructure is creaking at the seams. We're at risk of power cuts in the future, gas storage is woefully inadequate. Privatised utilities have no real incentive to invest.

 

Airports: new capacity won't just magically appear. The taxpayer will subsidise any new capacity and of course infrastructure.

 

Public broadcasting. Which companies do you mean?

 

Same for waste management. Which companies?

 

Public housing: subsidies in form of shared ownership, right to buy discounts, housing benefits etc...

[tinfoilhat]

You pointed it out but you're totally wrong.

 

Electricity: multi-billion pound subsidies dfor new power plants.

Gas: tax breaks.

 

In both cases infrastructure is creaking at the seams. We're at risk of power cuts in the future, gas storage is woefully inadequate. Privatised utilities have no real incentive to invest.

 

Airports: new capacity won't just magically appear. The taxpayer will subsidise any new capacity and of course infrastructure.

 

Public broadcasting. Which companies do you mean?

 

Same for waste management. Which companies?

 

Public housing: subsidies in form of shared ownership, right to buy discounts, housing benefits etc...

 

Water. I know its a bit pricey (it comes from the sky for FFs ) and although English infrastructure isn't great it is being updated and has been for a while. Compare that with the government owned Northern Ireland water and we're in a far better place they haven't upgraded bugger all for decades.

 

And are we counting telephones as a utility? That's a relative success surely.