aliceBB Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) See there you go again with the intentional insults, you don't appear to be able to help yourself, hopefully you aren't a teacher, because if you are there is no hope. All I have done is make two observations about the content of your posts, both of which I can substantiate from what you have written. Please explain how that equates to insulting you. And while you're at it, please prove me wrong and explain, if you can, what the holiday-returners would be doing in class under your proposed reform of the school year If you are unable to do that I think we must assume that you do not understand how schools and teachers have to operate today, or the motivation levels of many secondary pupils and why the combination of those two factors mean that your suggestion is dead in the water. Edited January 25, 2014 by aliceBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Exactly what have I said which has insulted you, please? You have implied more than once that I am stupid, I have a different opinion to the one you hold, and having a different opinion doesn't make someone stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) You have implied more than once that I am stupid, I have a different opinion to the one you hold, and having a different opinion doesn't make someone stupid. Please quote anything I have posted which has implied that you are stupid. However, the opinions you have expressed are not the things I have taken issue with (apart from your rather contrary assertion that children do not actually need teachers!) All I've tried to do is show that your argument is very weak - based on several false premises and a poor grasp of the facts. I have shown in some detail the practical implications of your proposed reform of the teaching year (to allow all pupils to take two weeks' holiday in termtime), which you offered us as a valid and workable suggestion. You have been invited more than once to explain why I am wrong in saying this wouldn't work, in fact would result in lowering of standards and a demoralised teaching force, but so far you have come up with nothing whatsoever. You cannot have it both ways. Either you think your idea is workable (in which case, please explain, as requested how it would work), or think about the arguments I have put forward and accept that it would not and that it was a daft suggestion and not thought-through. Edited January 25, 2014 by aliceBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkey104 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 If you think the practical question I have outlined, ie how the teaching of the National Curriculum and preparation for public examinations is to be organised to accommodate pupils being off, left right and centre through the school year, does not constitute a problem, then please answer my questions (see emboldened parts of previous posts). It is simply not good enough to mumble about things being better 'in the olden days'. In fact, I suspect you have no evidence whatsoever about how or to what extent pupils other than yourself caught up after absences in days of yore. How could you possibly know? If you personally have a subjective impression that you managed to catch up satisfactorily without teacher intervention, that may have been a case of 'rose-tinted spectacles', or because the curriculum was more text-based in those days and there wasn't any coursework or much class interaction - I have no idea when you went to school, or how boring your teachers normally were, or how much they expected you to learn it all for yourselves while they sat at the front of the class and dozed, or did their knitting (as one of my teachers used to!). That would certainly influence your expectation of how much work you did independently. I think I probably taught myself more German than my teacher ever taught me, but that isn't to say I couldn't have learned even more with good, active and demanding teaching. Teacher these days are expected to be all singing and all dancing and to teach actively all through the lesson. They cannot on the one hand be expected to do that then told that pupils can manage just as well without them. Make your mind up! In the end... I taught for 30 years and have observed the effects of pupil absence on a much larger scale than you have. And with respect, you are talking nonsense. I cannot disagree with that, but I do not think we can say with any confidence that the average GCSE candidate will get as good a grade without being taught by a teacher. You really don't have a clue how secondary schools operate, do you? I suggest you go and sit in on some middle-ability GCSE lessons for a week or a fortnight, and then come back and tell us that teachers are not necessary in the learning process. Observe with particular attention the kids who were away the previous lesson/week and see the problems they have 'catching up'. Then perhaps you will realise that your suggestion was ridiculous. What new steps have been taken against parents who continually allow their offspring to miss school. It seems that parents taking their children, who otherwise have a good school record, out of school for a holiday are an easy target by the educationauthorities/ government. Due to my sons work he cannot take a holiday during term time so will have to pay the fine in order to have a holiday with his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Please quote anything I have posted which has implied that you are stupid. There no hope for you if you don't remember what you have said. ---------- Post added 25-01-2014 at 22:41 ---------- Please quote anything I have posted which has implied that you are stupid. However, the opinions you have expressed are not the things I have taken issue with. All I've tried to do is show that your argument is false. I have shown in some detail the practical implications of your proposed reform of the teaching year (to allow all pupils to take two weeks' holiday in termtime), which you offered us as a valid and workable suggestion. You have been invited more than once to explain why I am wrong in saying this wouldn't work, in fact would result in lowering of standards and a demoralised teaching force, but so far you have come up with nothing whatsoever. You cannot have it both ways. Either you think your suggestion is workable (in which case, please explain how it would work, as requested) or think about the arguments I have put forward and accept that it would not. I've also showed you that you are wrong, all that is left is for us to agree to disagree, but that wasn't good enough for you so more insults came flying. The past tells us that kids catch up the work they miss. Edited January 25, 2014 by ivanava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Due to my sons work he cannot take a holiday during term time so will have to pay the fine in order to have a holiday with his family. That makes no sense at all. Why would he have to pay a fine to take his kids away in the school holidays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 That makes no sense at all. Why would he have to pay a fine to take his kids away in the school holidays? Yes it does, it makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) There no hope for you if you don't remember what you have said.Another silly non-argument. I asked you to tell me what I have said which you have taken as a personal insult. I'll assume by this reply that you cannot do that. I've also showed you that you are wrong, No. At no point have you come up with a single counterargument to my points; simply saying 'I don't agree' is not showing that someone is wrong. To show that I am wrong you need to produce some arguments or evidence to the contrary, not just vague anecdotal recollections of your own schooldays (in Russia?) all that is left is for us to agree to disagree, but that wasn't good enough for you so more insults came flying.Which insults would those, be then? The past tells us that kids catch up the work they miss.No. Your past tells you that you think you caught up, that's all. It tells us nothing about the way schools and teachers have to operate in 2014, or about the majority of pupils now who were less self-motivated than you were. Edited January 25, 2014 by aliceBB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qualtrough Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Hi Michael Gove has changed the rules around school holidays. So the education authority can give out fixed penalty notices. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overview "You can be prosecuted if you don’t give your child an education." I believe that holidays are part of a persons life experience and add to their education. My daughter has recently moved in with me, she was attending school less when she was with her mother. So if she has 5 extra days out of school, how can I be doing worse than before? If I dont pay any FPN, how likely would a judge be to see it my way? You're right about holidays, just not in term time. Do you think society's winners missed school? Ever wonder why the working class stay that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Another silly non-argument. I asked you to tell me what I have said which you have taken as a personal insult. I'll assume by this reply that you cannot do that. No. At no point have you come up with a single counterargument to my points; simply syaing 'I don't agree' is not showing that someone is wrong. Which insults would those, be then? No. Your past tells you that you think you caught up, that's all. It tells us nothing about the way schools and teachers have to operate in 2014, or about the majority of pupils now who were less self-motivated than you were. You really don't get it do you, you think you have showed me that I am wrong, I don't agree, I have showed you that you are wrong, you don't agree, all that is left is to agree to disagree, but all you could do is insult my intelligence by claiming I don't know the meaning or words and I can't type a coherent sentence. You've just done the same to another member, their post made perfect sense yet you claimed it didn't, it seams it is you with the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts