mjw47 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 i appreciate your ethical position, but aren't they just words? - maybe i'm just not as moral as you, but such an oath wouldn't bother me and isn't the oath simply because of the legal niceties of the crown being the prosecutor rather than the state? are we as individuals any less equal or do we have fewer rights because we are called subjects rather than citizens? You say they are just words. If you truly believe that then how can anyone trust a word you say? 'Lend me a £100.00 I'll pay you back next Tuesday.' Next Wednesday morning. 'You want me to pay you back as promised? They were only words.' Words are important. And yes, we do have fewer rights than if we were a Republic. We lack the right to be treat as equals in our own country. We lack the right to apply for and hold certain jobs and positions unless we are prepared to act in a hypocritical fashion and take an oath to something we don't believe in. My word means something to me, if I give my word I will do everything I possibly can to keep it. Old fashioned maybe but that's the way it is. ---------- Post added 29-01-2014 at 14:00 ---------- Yes but in reality it seems only people with money,influence and connections actually get there..I'm not sure that's any better than having a constitutional monarch... Have you looked at the backgrounds of Harry S Truman (surely!) Haberdasher,shoe salesman and farmer? What about Bill Clinton? Barack Obama? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 I know this is off topic and not about the monarchy but have you read the book "Black Diamonds" by Catherine Bailey ? No. Is it good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 No. Is it good? Very much of an eye opener in the first few chapters. It is the story of local aristocracy and their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Oaths are sworn to the Queen to avoid any political bias. That's a laugh. The Royals aren't exactly renowned for their Marxist leanings, are they? In any case, it is no less 'political' than the NHS or the railways or the education system, i.e. an organisation through which public money is redistributed and the power of the state is wielded, hopefully for the common good. Sounds pretty political to me. The reasons for the monarchy's very existence are inextricably linked to politics in general and Conservatism in particular. Just because elected governments in this country have not yet felt strongly enough about the monarchy to dissolve it, does not mean that it is not a political entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 You say they are just words. If you truly believe that then how can anyone trust a word you say? 'Lend me a £100.00 I'll pay you back next Tuesday.' Next Wednesday morning. 'You want me to pay you back as promised? They were only words.' Words are important. And yes, we do have fewer rights than if we were a Republic. We lack the right to be treat as equals in our own country. We lack the right to apply for and hold certain jobs and positions unless we are prepared to act in a hypocritical fashion and take an oath to something we don't believe in. My word means something to me, if I give my word I will do everything I possibly can to keep it. Old fashioned maybe but that's the way it is. ---------- Post added 29-01-2014 at 14:00 ---------- Have you looked at the backgrounds of Harry S Truman (surely!) Haberdasher,shoe salesman and farmer? What about Bill Clinton? Barack Obama? Obama ( a lawyer) is worth about 12 million..Clinton (went to Oxford and Yale) 55 million.. not really the common or garden types .. I'll give you Truman .. Where are the blue collar presidents? If it's a position that anyone can fill then surely there'd be some recently.. Why not mention the Kennedys? That's a political Dynasty if ever there was one..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Very much of an eye opener in the first few chapters. It is the story of local aristocracy and their history. Maybe I'll give it a go! (Got to get through my box set of Downton Abbey DVDs first though! ) I want that house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 That's a laugh. The Royals aren't exactly renowned for their Marxist leanings, are they? It is no less 'political' than the NHS or the railways or the education system, i.e. an organisation through which public money is redistributed and the power of the state is wielded, hopefully for the common good. Sounds pretty political to me. The reasons for their very existence are inextricably linked to politics in general and Conservatism in particular. Just because elected governments in this country have not yet felt strongly enough about the monarchy to dissolve it, does not mean that it is not a political entity. But the monarchy is not linked to a political party and should therefore be classed as neutral. Never forget that many people from the Republic of Ireland take an oath of allegiance to the Queen every year when joining the British armed forces. They are willing to risk their lives in her service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I think the Prime Minister has got enough on his plate, without taking over the Monarch's state duties. Who would be interested in seeing the PM carrying out Royal engagements. Especially in those Countries where so many people consider the state visit of a Royal to be an honour and privilege. And not only that ordinary people abroad want to see someone they recognise, not a politician or a president they couldn't give a toss about. The PM wouldn't do it. That's why you elect a President who represents the country as opposed to a political party. Are you really telling me that people get excited about seeing someone who possess no discernable talent and who's entire claim to fame is that they exist? If there are such people they should not be encouraged, as Darwinian principles need to apply. Some people like the pomp and ceremony, fair enough you can still have that without a monarch. A number of years ago I attended the Edinburgh Tattoo and enjoyed it. As far as I know no royalty were there but it was of no interest to me anyway, I was there to watch the marching bands etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 The PM wouldn't do it. That's why you elect a President who represents the country as opposed to a political party. Are you really telling me that people get excited about seeing someone who possess no discernable talent and who's entire claim to fame is that they exist? If there are such people they should not be encouraged, as Darwinian principles need to apply. Some people like the pomp and ceremony, fair enough you can still have that without a monarch. A number of years ago I attended the Edinburgh Tattoo and enjoyed it. As far as I know no royalty were there but it was of no interest to me anyway, I was there to watch the marching bands etc. Many of the soldiers there will have been in Royal regiments and worn badges incorporating the crown symbolising their allegiance to the Queen. Probably soldiers from Nepal or Southern Ireland(serving in British regts.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Are you really telling me that people get excited about seeing someone who possess no discernable talent and who's entire claim to fame is that they exist? If there are such people they should not be encouraged, as Darwinian principles need to apply. You know some people do..you only have to watch any news item concerning the opening of a new factory/theatre/school/hospital etc and if any of the Royals are involved there'll be the obligatory flag waving and cheering.Some people camp out overnight just to see them go to Church at Sandringham at Christmas.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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