harvey19 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 That is fair enough, if that's the way you think. What about the rest of us though? Believe me we are not in a small minority, I'm knocking on a bit and worked for many years in a job that brought me into daily touch with new people. There are many people out there who think on similar lines to aliceBB and I. In fact if there is a majority view I think it would be in the 'don't give a monkeys' sector. As I posted earlier, unless we have been prepared to act hypocritically non royalists have been excluded from certain positions. Many people do choose to compromise in order to work in their chosen job but they shouldn't have to. I personally know two police officers who are anti royalist but had to take the oath. We shouldn't have to, a choice should be offered where it is felt an oath is appropriate, swear to the Queen or alternatively swear to the Country. That of course wouldn't be acceptable to royalists, what if someone kept score and the Country outnumbered the Queen? I know there are many who decry the monarchy but think if it came to a vote they would rather keep it as it is a part of being British. The police officers you refer to cannot hold their anti royal views very strongly otherwise they would not have taken an oath to the Queen or wear a badge carrying the crown. You don't agree with the fact that a oath has to be taken in order to qualify for certain roles in the workplace. The oath is to show loyalty to the country personified by the Queen it doesn't mean that you like her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It's a daft cliche to say all MP's are bent. A black and white view. Your views on the royals are black and white. However refusing to pursue being a magistrate over swearing an oath to the queen is just cutting off your nose. Again, black and white as you can't see the grey area that allows you to swear an oath while not supporting the monarchy. You place yourself with Sinn Fein MP's. Poll? Do you doubt that most people agree with me that the monarchy should stay? If you think otherwise then it is you who is funny. The recent expenses scandal saw 52% of MPs having to repay expenses. Including David Cameron who apparently thought it appropriate that the taxpayer should pay for his gardening, 'in order to allow him to carry out his ministerial duties' which is what expenses are supposed to be for. The Times reported a few weeks back that MPs expenses are now more than what they were at the time of the scandal. All of which would appear to prove that more MPs are corrupt than are not and moreover they look upon the general public's views with contempt. Sinn Fein MPs do not take their seats in Parliament and do not take the oath to the Queen, but how they got into the discussion only you know. You have made it clear that you have no trouble lying and deceiving people if it is to your advantage. Therefore you are not much of a man and I would not have employed you in any capacity in my previous business. Someone who cannot be trusted is a liability and best avoided at all costs. The fact that you have no problem revealing this character flaw shows an acceptance of your lack of morals which is revealing. As for your assertion that most people agree with you on the retention of the monarchy, prove it. ---------- Post added 29-01-2014 at 20:41 ---------- I know there are many who decry the monarchy but think if it came to a vote they would rather keep it as it is a part of being British. The police officers you refer to cannot hold their anti royal views very strongly otherwise they would not have taken an oath to the Queen or wear a badge carrying the crown. You don't agree with the fact that a oath has to be taken in order to qualify for certain roles in the workplace. The oath is to show loyalty to the country personified by the Queen it doesn't mean that you like her. No, but it would mean that I accept her authority over me wouldn't it? And I don't. By the way, as I have never met the Queen I have no idea as to if I would like her or not. I did spend a morning which included a forty minute private conversation between my old MD myself and Prince Michael. He seemed OK, felt a bit sorry for him as he appears to have made himself a caricature of his great (great?) grandfather in order to find a role. If the oath is to show loyalty to the country then why can't it be simplified and sworn to the country? People would probably vote to keep it not because it's British but because their apathetic and resistant to change, in my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 The oath, if I remember rightly, is to Queen and country. I believe this is to avoid any political bias. Thank you for an interesting debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 The oath, if I remember rightly, is to Queen and country. I believe this is to avoid any political bias. Thank you for an interesting debate No problem, sorry to be nit picking, but that oath would still cause a problem to me. Whilst I would have no problem swearing an oath to my country, there is no way in which I could be persuaded to swear an oath to a fellow human being. All human beings are fallible, that is simply the nature of the beast. As someone once said ' A Saint is someone who's background has not been sufficiently well researched.' I was raised to believe that no man woman or child was 'better' than me, And by the exact same token I was no 'better' than any man woman or child. Appreciate that the Crown is a concept, but it is represented by a fallible human being who we are supposed to accept as the embodiment of the Crown. Simply not going to happen, I am no ones subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 People would probably vote to keep it not because it's British but because their apathetic and resistant to change, in my opinion of course. I'm all for change if its change for improvement, but a lot of change is change for change sake, and it doesn't. If it aint broke don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qualtrough Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 No problem, sorry to be nit picking, but that oath would still cause a problem to me. Whilst I would have no problem swearing an oath to my country, there is no way in which I could be persuaded to swear an oath to a fellow human being. All human beings are fallible, that is simply the nature of the beast. As someone once said ' A Saint is someone who's background has not been sufficiently well researched.' I was raised to believe that no man woman or child was 'better' than me, And by the exact same token I was no 'better' than any man woman or child. Appreciate that the Crown is a concept, but it is represented by a fallible human being who we are supposed to accept as the embodiment of the Crown. Simply not going to happen, I am no ones subject. You're a subject of Her Majesty whether you like it or not, unless you don't hold a UK passport which I doubt. You can't just wish away your subject status anymore than I can wish away the colour green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeMac Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 You're a subject of Her Majesty whether you like it or not, unless you don't hold a UK passport which I doubt. You can't just wish away your subject status anymore than I can wish away the colour green. Nonsense. We are all free men... or women. None of us have to obey the Queen. It is 2014, not 1420. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nonsense. We are all free men... or women. None of us have to obey the Queen. It is 2014, not 1420. In reality I doubt many of us will ever be put in the position of being able to refuse! Although I would like the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qualtrough Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nonsense. We are all free men... or women. None of us have to obey the Queen. It is 2014, not 1420. Who told you that? The Queen won't be giving you any orders anytime soon, a point anti monarchists seem to have missed in their binary thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeMac Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Who told you that? The Queen won't be giving you any orders anytime soon, a point anti monarchists seem to have missed in their binary thinking. You told me that. Just up there ^^^ I'm telling you that you are talking rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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