School Uniform - a Good Thing, or Not?

[ivanava]

Yes. Perhaps the question I should have asked is: 'What would schoolchildren gain or lose, were uniform to be abandoned?'

 

Freedom of choice, which would make them much happy and more open to learning.

[onewheeldave]

 

 

 

They are still their clothes. Again, most people who work have to wear clothes they would not normally wear. Suits, high vis jackets, steel toe cap boots. Being asked to wear a uniform is nothing different to being in the outside world.

 

Hi vis jackets/steel cap boots are for safety.

 

Suits are a joke.

 

Note how in the most dishonest professions, eg, politics, suits are a vital necessity.

 

Some people are sheeple who have an emotional need for uniformity, conformity and the suppression of individuality: they need to realise their emotional problems are their emotional problems and cease trying to address them by trying to stifle the individuality of others who lack those problems.

 

The worlds in a mess, mainly as a direct result of bizarre, but institutionalised, attitudes like those I refer to above.

 

Schools are where our next generation of potential world changers come from- lets encourage a bit of individualism and innovative thought, eh?

 

Change now, or forever stay the same.

[Hammerstein]

Edit: Has a post been deleted? This post was a response to a post above 'onewheeldave's post, but now it has gone.

 

I agree. I would say the culture in children (especially secondary age) which values fashion styles so highly is largely related to the school anyway though. They have no power over anything that happens in their lives, so the culture becomes one orientated around gaining power in the way they know how - popularity.

 

Give the kids some sense of agency over their lives and these things don't matter so much, as is evidenced in democratic schools across the world.

 

Again though, I don't see how uniforms help create a serene atmosphere. They foster repression and make them more likely to be subdued, like prisoners. They encourage obedience, by making everyone feel identical. I don't see how that is serene. The only person I can imagine who might think it is serene is a teacher who equates obedience with learning and happiness.

 

I don't see what you mean about 'fashionable styles' of uniform either. If it is a uniform - ie if everyone is wearing it - then the fashion element of it is negated.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Hammerstein

[skinz]

Does anyone have children who really hate/d their school uniform?

 

And what was your own uniform like (if you had one) and how did you feel about it? I have yet to meet anyone who claims to have worn one with pride.

 

I had to wear one, can't remember it being with pride but just seen as a normal progression. Every other school similarly wore uniforms. Looking back ours were rather smart and quiet. I don't necessarily see it as a good thing, but equally don't see it as a bad thing. My children wore them and never complained. In their final years they were allowed to forego the uniform as though it was a recognition of young adulthood.

[Hammerstein]

Some people are sheeple who have an emotional need for uniformity, conformity and the suppression of individuality: they need to realise their emotional problems are their emotional problems and cease trying to address them by trying to stifle the individuality of others who lack those problems.

 

Absolutely nailed it. I agree completely.

[Minimo]

I came from a poor background, owing to my father dying very young, leaving my widowed mum to raise three children alone.

At my grammar school, uniform could only be bought from one very expensive outlet, and included even things like house shoes. My mum struggled to buy it, but it left no money to buy 'mufti' as well.

So when I went out I had to wear my school blazer or raincoat as there was nothing else. I accepted it, even though it led to a certain amount of sneering from other kids.

 

Just another side of the uniform dilemma. Even the poorest kids these days have different clothes for school and leisure.

[aliceBB]

OK. So, to avoid children becoming sheeplike, you do away with school uniform and allow them to come to school dressed however they like.

 

The result : because they are not, in the end, the independent, free spirits we would like them to be, and because at that age they are particularly prone to being victims of the capitalist system and advertising, they all dress more or less the same, in fashion items which will cost them or their parents more than the uniform they have rejected. It also triggers an avalanche of social media spite and nastiness about individuals' fashion sense or lack of it. Ask any 14 year old privately whether they would prefer to wear uniform and they will say 'Yes'. Ask the same child in front of their mates and they'll say 'No'. Go figure...

 

It is only at University that most individuals have the confidence and commonsense to dress how they wish without losing sleep over what others will think about what they look like.

[Hammerstein]

OK. So, to avoid children becoming sheeplike, you do away with school uniform and allow them to come to school dressed however they like.

 

The result : because they are not, in the end, the independent, free spirits we would like them to be, and because at that age they are particularly prone to being victims of the capitalist system and advertising, they all dress more or less the same, in fashion items which will cost them or their parents more than the uniform they have rejected. It also triggers an avalanche of social media spite and nastiness about individuals' fashion sense or lack of it. Ask any 14 year old privately whether they would prefer to wear uniform and they will say 'Yes'. Ask the same child in front of their mates and they'll say 'No'. Go figure...

 

It is only at University that most individuals have the confidence and commonsense to dress how they wish without losing sleep over what others will think about what they look like.

 

Another reason why teenagers have that culture towards clothing is because it is the only way in which they can distinguish themselves from other people. It is also the only way they can discern power over others, through wearing the 'right' clothing.

 

I agree that what you said can be an issue, but only in a school which gives these relatively minor freedoms and yet restricts more important ones. Give the children freedom to pursue their own interests, for example, and develop their own sense of self through doing so, and you will find that they will care less about clothes and fashion because they have other ways of defining themselves. They don't have those other ways in traditional school because in terms of freedom they are about on a par with a criminals in prison, except they are only there for certain hours of course.

 

If you want to look more into the idea of opening up learning day, look into democratic education. Summerhill and Sands in the UK, and dozens of Sudbury Valley schools across Europe and the U.S. It is worth looking at the Ofsted reports for Summerhill and Sands especially, which pay due attention to how well-behaved and pleasant the children are and how there are 'certainly no bullying' (Ofsted's words) at either. It seems they have received a bit of stick in the media (the Daily Mail ran an article fairly recently on Summerhill) but they have obvious vested interests so I would take it with a pinch of salt. I'd rely on Ofsted over the tabloids (and it is always the populist tabloids, rather than the serious newspapers)

 

See for yourself:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/113619

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/CARE/SC024584

[monkey104]

As a youngster who used to dress frequently in second hand clothes I couldn't wait to go to

' Big school '.

I used to look forward to going to the old education offices on Leopoldo street with my mum to 'shop' for my free school uniform.

It was the only time I felt I fitted in with the other kids.

Uniforms do not make 'sheeple'. If you want an example just look at the forces, a team of over 100,000 individuals allowed and encouraged to think for themselves and their colleagues.

[tinfoilhat]

Another reason why teenagers have that culture towards clothing is because it is the only way in which they can distinguish themselves from other people. It is also the only way they can discern power over others, through wearing the 'right' clothing.

 

I agree that what you said can be an issue, but only in a school which gives these relatively minor freedoms and yet restricts more important ones. Give the children freedom to pursue their own interests, for example, and develop their own sense of self through doing so, and you will find that they will care less about clothes and fashion because they have other ways of defining themselves. They don't have those other ways in traditional school because in terms of freedom they are about on a par with a criminals in prison, except they are only there for certain hours of course.

 

If you want to look more into the idea of opening up learning day, look into democratic education. Summerhill and Sands in the UK, and dozens of Sudbury Valley schools across Europe and the U.S. It is worth looking at the Ofsted reports for Summerhill and Sands especially, which pay due attention to how well-behaved and pleasant the children are and how there are 'certainly no bullying' (Ofsted's words) at either. It seems they have received a bit of stick in the media (the Daily Mail ran an article fairly recently on Summerhill) but they have obvious vested interests so I would take it with a pinch of salt. I'd rely on Ofsted over the tabloids (and it is always the populist tabloids, rather than the serious newspapers)

 

See for yourself:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/113619

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/CARE/SC024584

 

Is there line when it comes kids wearing what they want for school? I've seen whole bunch of teenagers with cut off jeans that hardly cover enough. As a teenage boy I'd be thrilled but I'm not sure it's appropriate for school. So can they wear what they want or only as long as those in charge approve?