School Uniform - a Good Thing, or Not?

[Hammerstein]

As a youngster who used to dress frequently in second hand clothes I couldn't wait to go to

' Big school '.

I used to look forward to going to the old education offices on Leopoldo street with my mum to 'shop' for my free school uniform.

It was the only time I felt I fitted in with the other kids.

Uniforms do not make 'sheeple'. If you want an example just look at the forces, a team of over 100,000 individuals allowed and encouraged to think for themselves and their colleagues.

 

Yeah the social thing is a decent enough point in favour of uniform, although I really don't think the military is a great example of people thinking for themselves

 

Is there line when it comes kids wearing what they want for school? I've seen whole bunch of teenagers with cut off jeans that hardly cover enough. As a teenage boy I'd be thrilled but I'm not sure it's appropriate for school. So can they wear what they want or only as long as those in charge approve?

 

The rules are all decided by the children and adults themselves. Each person a vote on whatever issue that comes up. They have a meeting every week to decide on things, although they often have meetings more often if there is a real pressing issue. I don't know for certain but my guess would be that if someone is dressing wildly inappropriately, someone would raise it in meeting and they would decide whether they should amend they rules on clothing. If the vote wins, the clothes are banned. If not, then it is rightfully not banned as it has lost the vote.

 

---------- Post added 03-08-2014 at 17:53 ----------

 

I wrote an article a while back about my experiences as a teacher if anyone is interested. I've re-posted it, today actually, to my own blog that i'm starting if anyone is interested in reading it: https://thebraindumpsite.wordpress.com/

[aliceBB]

 

If you want to look more into the idea of opening up learning day, look into democratic education. Summerhill and Sands in the UK, and dozens of Sudbury Valley schools across Europe and the U.S. It is worth looking at the Ofsted reports for Summerhill and Sands especially, which pay due attention to how well-behaved and pleasant the children are and how there are 'certainly no bullying' (Ofsted's words) at either. It seems they have received a bit of stick in the media (the Daily Mail ran an article fairly recently on Summerhill) but they have obvious vested interests so I would take it with a pinch of salt. I'd rely on Ofsted over the tabloids (and it is always the populist tabloids, rather than the serious newspapers)

 

See for yourself:

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/113619

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/CARE/SC024584

 

Grandmothers and sucking eggs spring to mind here!

 

Fascinating and ironic that someone who claims to want to cast off the shackles of traditional schooling and allow children much more freedom to choose, should revere a system which has done more to make the curriculum rigid, restrain and prressurise teachers and pupils and make schools stratified than it was possible to imagine when it was first brought in. Besides which, it is perfectly possible for appalling schools to get glowing OFSTED reports and vice versa. I know. My children went to them. Please don't tell me to trust them - I was a teacher for 30+ years and I have watched OFSTED fail in all its incarnations to do what it is supposed to do!

[monkey104]

Yeah the social thing is a decent enough point in favour of uniform, although I really don't think the military is a great example of people thinking for themselves

 

 

 

The rules are all decided by the children and adults themselves. Each person a vote on whatever issue that comes up. They have a meeting every week to decide on things, although they often have meetings more often if there is a real pressing issue. I don't know for certain but my guess would be that if someone is dressing wildly inappropriately, someone would raise it in meeting and they would decide whether they should amend they rules on clothing. If the vote wins, the clothes are banned. If not, then it is rightfully not banned as it has lost the vote.

 

---------- Post added 03-08-2014 at 17:53 ----------

 

I wrote an article a while back about my experiences as a teacher if anyone is interested. I've re-posted it, today actually, to my own blog that i'm starting if anyone is interested in reading it: https://thebraindumpsite.wordpress.com/

 

I think we will have to agree to disagree on that point. I am aware that a lot of folk who have never served, believe that soldiers are automatons. But if you want to move through the ranks you need to show initiative, leadership abilities,forward and lateral thinking all tth while handling, in some cases, millions of pounds worth of equipment.

Not exactly an environment for someone unable to think for themselves.

Having spent 22 years in the Army I spent a majority of my time with the FCO in hostile locations.

I believe I was able to think for myself and my team

[L00b]

Would it be better if we adopted the policy of French state schools and let pupils wear their own clothes (with the exception of items deemed 'unsuitable' e.g. skimpy tops, tight fitting shorts, etc)?

The real core issue with the above in France, which is ages-old and still not sorted (nor will it ever be, realistically), and which you will not hear or read about, is fashion-led peer pressure which mandates designer labels-this/that/the other, creating significantly more pressure on hard-up Mums and Dads throughout the school year than forking out for one or two uniforms, but hand-in-hand with this goes routine extortion of said designer items by gangs of rough kids (frequent enough in schools, but completely routine outside the gates).

 

It becomes a very delicate balancing act for soft and even not-so-soft kids, and introduces complex socio-psychological issues in kids from far too early an age. Some will say "it's the school of hard knocks and that's life" - and to those I'll say that's an irresponsible cop-out.

 

I say all this as a person who spent all its primary and secondary education in France, who looked after his kid brother in same, and as a brother-in-law to a (state/public) teacher in the secondary in France for the last 7 years or so.

 

In this respect at least, British school uniforms are a great 'leveller'.

[Hammerstein]

Grandmothers and sucking eggs spring to mind here!

 

Fascinating and ironic that someone who claims to want to cast off the shackles of traditional schooling and allow children much more freedom to choose, should revere a system which has done more to make the curriculum rigid, restrain and prressurise teachers and pupils and make schools stratified than it was possible to imagine when it was first brought in. Besides which, it is perfectly possible for appalling schools to get glowing OFSTED reports and vice versa. I know. My children went to them. Please don't tell me to trust them - I was a teacher for 30+ years and I have watched OFSTED fail in all its incarnations to do what it is supposed to do!

 

How does democratic education make 'the curriculum rigid, restrain and prressurise teachers and pupils and make schools stratified than it was possible to imagine when it was first brought in'? I think i've missed something.

 

Yes I agree on your point about Ofsted. I think main thing in the context of these schools is that historically they have had a very tried relationship and that even Ofsted are willing to compliment them says something.

 

I think we will have to agree to disagree on that point. I am aware that a lot of folk who have never served, believe that soldiers are automatons. But if you want to move through the ranks you need to show initiative, leadership abilities,forward and lateral thinking all tth while handling, in some cases, millions of pounds worth of equipment.

Not exactly an environment for someone unable to think for themselves.

Having spent 22 years in the Army I spent a majority of my time with the FCO in hostile locations.

I believe I was able to think for myself and my team

 

When it comes to tactics and all the things you list I see your point. Hell, i'd consider signing up myself for those reasons. I have a mate who was in the army and he's gone from having the body of a beanbag to being ripped and being much more disciplined and focused in his life.

 

In the hostile locations though, were you able to openly question the motives behind you being sent there? Were you able to challenge orders from higher up? It's on that level that i'm talking about. If the military rely on discipline in order to get stuff done efficiently then surely a big part of that is having most people willing to do as they're told without stopping to philosophise about it...?

 

I can see why lateral thinking, initiative, leadership abilities are vital to managing a team and getting stuff done. When the question is 'how will carry out our objective most effectively' that's great. I'm sure there is a huge vested interested in discouraging people from asking questions like 'why are we here in the first place?' though. It's best if people don't think about that too much.

 

You're right that I don't have any experience myself and you're going to have a better idea on this than I am. I'd love to hear what you think.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Hammerstein

[Bypassblade]

It seems to me that school uniforms have become generally smarter since the 1980s (blazers and ties instead of sweatshirts, proper shirts not polos, only one acceptable design of trousers, etc). Yet in many schools, getting kids to wear the uniform properly (as opposed to wearing it sloppily) is still an uphill job. Teachers spend a lot of time and energy requiring pupils to put their ties on, tuck shirts in, wear the correct shoes not trainers, etc.

 

Parents moan that it costs a lot - but I'm not sure it would cost any less if we let them wear what they wanted. (£75 jeans, etc).

Is it worth it?

 

Would it be better if we adopted the policy of French state schools and let pupils wear their own clothes (with the exception of items deemed 'unsuitable' e.g. skimpy tops, tight fitting shorts, etc)? It would be one less battle to fight.

 

I don't have a view on this - I'm just interested in people's views. How do you (and your children?) feel about school uniform?

 

For the record I hated mine, but it did consist of something mediaeval nuns would have shrunk from...dark brown, thick itchy tunic, stiff shirt, barathea blazer and beret in days before berets were fashionable!

 

I have just seen this thread but only read a couple of posts, I'm just a bit shocked who'd pay 75 quid for jeans for an adult let alone a kid. I think uniforms look smart plus you can identify the little gits and report misbehaviour to the schools.

 

I had a barathea in the early 70's and the vogue then was how many silver buttons, you had going up the sleeve,

[aliceBB]

Believe me, many teenagers think nothing of paying £75 for a pair of jeans.

[Bypassblade]

Believe me, many teenagers think nothing of paying £75 for a pair of jeans.

 

Alice I can well believe it, but wouldn't do it myself

 

Pete

[poppet2]

Do you remember when ripped jeans were the fashion? Crazy thing was, the ripped jeans were more expensive then the unripped jeans. The kids could have bought the unripped jeans, then ripped them themselves and paid far less!

[skat man]

I love school uniforms! No fighting about what to wear. No having to have something everyone else has. Plus it equalizes everyone. Poor, middle class, wealthy all look the same. My youngest has to wear a uniform to her school. Just wish my oldest did at her school.

 

Agree 100%