SpikeMac Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Well they produced me, so yes. Cased closed. Quod erat demonstrandum. Oh, by the way. Just a little tip from someone who was educated in a 1970s comprehensive. It's "were" not "where". "schools in the 60s, 70s and 80s were fantastic". Compared to today, indeed they were. Just a tip to those who were educated in the 60s, 70s and 80s. It might be a good idea to find out what happens in most modern schools, before getting all pompous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Well, you can forget corporal punishment for a start. It's illegal. He's on about things like picking up litter, and detentions where pupils write lines - both of which need close supervision by - guess who, teachers. Don't the well-behaved deserve their time and attention more? Most schools do operate a detention system, anyway, although the kids usually do something more productive than writing lines. I've never seen the point of that. The problem is, detentions don't work. You get the same kids coming back time and time again. (Or refusing to come back, which creates even more work for the staff. Or their parents refusing to allow them to attend). If detentions worked, the Painful Ones would only need to attend a couple and they'd be cured. It's a bit like caning - it simply doesn't work for most kids. It becomes a badge of honour, even. I too am in favour of returning them to their parents' care if they cannot behave in school or complete the work without wasting huge amounts of the teachers' time, which could better be spent on those willing to co-operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Can't classroom assistants supervise stuff like that? They are a phenomena that came in after I left school. If they can't do that, what do they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Can't classroom assistants supervise stuff like that? They are a phenomena that came in after I left school. If they can't do that, what do they do? What they are employed to do is help individual children with special educational needs, to access the curriculum. They aren't paid much and they certainly aren't paid to run detentions out of school hours, even if they had the authority to do so (which most do not). They are not teachers, and their remit is not to punish poor behaviour. In France, behaviour isn't seen as the class teacher's responsibility - if a kid kicks off, they are immediately removed from class and sent to a detention room supervised by a 'pion'(used to be undergrads earning a bit of extra money, not sure if that still applies). Parents are informed and the kid is only allowed back in class when the parents agree to ensure that his behaviour will improve. I think that probably happens in most schools here, too, except that not all parents take it seriously. There is often a correlation between the kid's attitude towards school and the parents'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 What they are employed to do is help individual children with special educational needs, to access the curriculum. They aren't paid much and they certainly aren't paid to run detentions out of school hours, even if they had the authority to do so (which most do not). They are not teachers, and their remit is not to punish poor behaviour. In France, behaviour isn't seen as the class teacher's responsibility - if a kid kicks off, they are immediately removed from class and sent to a detention room supervised by a 'pion'(used to be undergrads earning a bit of extra money, not sure if that still applies). Parents are informed and the kid is only allowed back in class when the parents agree to ensure that his behaviour will improve. I think that probably happens in most schools here, too, except that not all parents take it seriously. There is often a correlation between the kid's attitude towards school and the parents'. That last bit is spot on and has been for years. Like the French idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebatty Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Gove is talking out of his rear again. Cheap political stunt, nothing more. In a word - " Agree ". ---------- Post added 02-02-2014 at 17:24 ---------- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-26003722 Do you agree, and if so, what kinds of 'traditional' punishments do you think would work best in schools (and why?) If you disagree, what solution do you proposeto deal with the (alleged) 700,000 unruly pupils in our schools whose behaviour damages the teaching and learning of others? Or don't you think it is a problem at all and just another half-baked, soundbitten 'stunt' by Gove? Gove, as do many of the " Rightists " , running out of positive ideas , just spout rhetoric to appeal to the minority control freaks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmack Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Well they produced me, so yes. Cased closed. Quod erat demonstrandum. Oh, by the way. Just a little tip from someone who was educated in a 1970s comprehensive. It's "were" not "where". "schools in the 60s, 70s and 80s were fantastic". Compared to today, indeed they were. I used the wrong homophone whilst typing out a response on my iPhone on a crowded bus. Love the logic mate. Anyway, what made the schools of the 70s so fantastic for you. Was it the corporal punishment.....wink, wink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobos Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I was military school educated in the 1960's you dare not mess about or back chat any of the teachers or you were in big trouble you had to do as you were told or else,they would think nothing about giving you a kicking it taught me respect that's for sure,its respect that a lot of young kids don't seem to have nowadays,I don't think beating kids up is a good idea but they need a ridged format to stick to.the thing I can remember most is the feeling of letting your mates down if you failed at something it was like you were all in it together comradeship,they never had corporal punishment or anything like that it was just installed into you from get go respect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 That last bit is spot on and has been for years. Like the French idea though. Yes! Interestingly (and probably not unconnected), it has been illegal in France for some years now to take your child out of school during term time, also in all the countries which beat the UK in the international school league tables. I know we have had a whole thread on this, but it is all part of the 'attitude' thing, in my experience. I do not hold the league tables up as some kind of Holy Grail, (and I suspect not all kids in the countries concerned actually attend school, which skews the stats) but it's hardly surprising those countries in SE Asia beat us hands down on achievement and motivation when the vats majority of the parents are 100% behind the schools and pushing their kids to do well, not complaining because their little dear was made to pick up litter, or refusing to let them attend a detention because they (the parent) didn't see why they should have to collect them, etc, etc. In fact, I would fear for any kid in China or South Korea who misbehaved in school - they'd probably be punished very harshly at home, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Maybe it's why he replaced the head of Ofsted with one of his stooges. It seems a bit of a U-turn since the tories abolished CP in the 1980s. Whilst CP may work on some people it doesn't on others. I remember them laughing about it in parliament. CP only causes resentment and retribution. That's someting the tories don't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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