Gove : Bring Back 'Old Fashioned' Punishments

[ivanava]

So you would be in favour of using the old Dunces hat then ? Thats a non violent form of punishment , something that should be right up your street.

 

:hihi: I get the feeling if he thinks about it, all those bad memories will come flooding back to the service.

[Halibut]

You misunderstand, I'm not scared, I'm just not willing to play you infantile games.

 

Then put up the links then. You won't because there aren't any.

 

It's not an infantile game - it's an attempt by some of us to have a sensible discussion.

 

You've been caught in an obvious untruth and you can't bear to admit it.

 

---------- Post added 19-03-2014 at 22:47 ----------

 

:hihi: I get the feeling if he thinks about it, all those bad memories will come flooding back to the service.

 

What service? Fire? Ambulance?

[Penistone999]

No I wouldn't. Any punishment designed to stigmatise a child and make them feel stupid is obviously a bad idea.

 

So are you claiming being made to stand in corner wearing a pointy hat mentally harms the little darlings. ?

[ivanava]

 

What service? Fire? Ambulance?

 

And then you wonder why I don't comply to your demands.

[salsafan]

I have already and for the most part it actually causes more emotional harm than good.

 

The intent is indeed to cause emotional harm on a psychological level. But, the parent obviously has to continue to love more, and therefore only perform this specific step when the child is out of line. In a way, when this is done over a period of time, the child learns what is right or wrong. It is not done in a "I lead, and you must follow" kind of way.

 

It may not necessarily though.

 

You need to know what you are doing obviously, but yes, corporate punishment was also how I was brought up too, and the teacher indeed had more power and my mother would comply and she would indeed put more emphasis in supporting the teacher than she would support me, which I often felt unjust obviously. But then when you see other children also doing a similar thing too, then there is a kind of camaraderie sometimes, more often than not. Which I know is not a great thing, and you are right to agree that from the position of a parent, you should indeed put your child first, and foremost. Since it is unjust when he did not commit the crime. Which is true. But then it boils down to whether a child can indeed learn to accept this kind of unfairness and become a part of a collective group of people. As in the real life, there is a lot of unfairness, and also a lot of chaos and nonsensical things. Life is dynamic, and not factual or literal every time. What will the child do and how will he cope if he does not learn this kind of mechanism from when he is young ?

 

I am thinking whether this push by the government is to really control the kids from being affected socially and become activists themselves. As there has been a lot of very aggressive children in recent years making the headlines. A lot.

[ivanava]

It's not an infantile game - it's an attempt by some of us to have a sensible discussion.

 

Here's how your game works, you goad until I supply a link, you say "but that's just one link and doesn't prove anything" you goad for some more links, and then say "but that's still just someones opinion and doesn't prove anything" this goes on until you are bored and then you move on the your next victim.

 

---------- Post added 19-03-2014 at 23:03 ----------

 

The intent is indeed to cause emotional harm on a psychological level. But, the parent obviously has to continue to love more, and therefore only perform this specific step when the child is out of line. In a way, when this is done over a period of time, the child learns what is right or wrong. It is not done in a "I lead, and you must follow" kind of way.

 

It may not necessarily though.

 

You need to know what you are doing obviously, but yes, corporate punishment was also how I was brought up too, and the teacher indeed had more power and my mother would comply and she would indeed put more emphasis in supporting the teacher than she would support me, which I often felt unjust obviously. But then when you see other children also doing a similar thing too, then there is a kind of camaraderie sometimes, more often than not. Which I know is not a great thing, and you are right to agree that from the position of a parent, you should indeed put your child first, and foremost. Since it is unjust when he did not commit the crime. Which is true. But then it boils down to whether a child can indeed learn to accept this kind of unfairness and become a part of a collective group of people. As in the real life, there is a lot of unfairness, and also a lot of chaos and nonsensical things. Life is dynamic, and not factual or literal every time. What will the child do and how will he cope if he does not learn this kind of mechanism from when he is young ?

 

I am thinking whether this push by the government is to really control the kids from being affected socially and become activists themselves. As there has been a lot of very aggressive children in recent years making the headlines. A lot.

What the child learn is that their carer can't cope with them when they are emotional and frustrated, so they are sent to another room out of the way to deal with their issues without the guidance of a carer. So just at the point the little ones need help they are sent out of the way.

[salsafan]

...

What the child learn is that their carer can't cope with them when they are emotional and frustrated, so they are sent to another room out of the way to deal with their issues without the guidance of a carer. So just at the point the little ones need help they are sent out of the way.

Nope, that is not how it is supposed to be done. You need to watch some of those TV programs. I do not think that even the parents that comes on those TV shows get the method either. For me, I know from my own experience and in hindsight why it works for me and what works for me.

 

Each child will differ in response, and if you watch it, the TV prog does indeed build up an entire new way for the parent to bond with the child, along with the discipline method in place too. The normal emotional care of every day feeding, tutoring has to happen. As well as the various activities, and to let the child talk to you openly (to build up trust, and relationship skills too). The timeout method is only used when the child is going feral basically. Most of the time if you watch those shows, the child has already been acting way beyond the disciplined stage already and this method is a drastic one but it brings them back down to focus point.

 

The same method as I mentioned about the suggestion of what my old headmaster would have done. He definitely would indeed lecture the entire school in an assembly. He would. Even now in my working place, a project manager would indeed lecture everyone and focuses the team back on track, even if someone drop the ball. The point is not to isolate a member of the team out, but to focus and bring the whole team back. In business, this is classed as a particular management style. In school, this is classed as a form of discipline. Either way, it is behavioral science and group dynamics at play.

[ivanava]

Nope, that is not how it is supposed to be done. You need to watch some of those TV programs. I do not think that even the parents that comes on those TV shows get the method either. For me, I know from my own experience and in hindsight why it works for me and what works for me.

 

Each child will differ in response, and if you watch it, the TV prog does indeed build up an entire new way for the parent to bond with the child, along with the discipline method in place too. The normal emotional care of every day feeding, tutoring has to happen. As well as the various activities, and to let the child talk to you openly (to build up trust, and relationship skills too). The timeout method is only used when the child is going feral basically. Most of the time if you watch those shows, the child has already been acting way beyond the disciplined stage already and this method is a drastic one but it brings them back down to focus point.

 

The same method as I mentioned about the suggestion of what my old headmaster would have done. He definitely would indeed lecture the entire school in an assembly. He would. Even now in my working place, a project manager would indeed lecture everyone and focuses the team back on track, even if someone drop the ball. The point is not to isolate a member of the team out, but to focus and bring the whole team back. In business, this is classed as a particular management style. In school, this is classed as a form of discipline. Either way, it is behavioral science and group dynamics at play.

 

Yes I have seen the TV shows, and I can see how it might control a child, I can also seen how it can cause more harm than good. It carries the same problems as smacking, both if done incorrectly can cause harm than good. Its better use a variety of different methods to reinforce good behavior and punish bad behavior.

[Halibut]

Here's how your game works, you goad until I supply a link, you say "but that's just one link and doesn't prove anything" you goad for some more links, and then say "but that's still just someones opinion and doesn't prove anything" this goes on until you are bored and then you move on the your next victim.

 

But what is actually happening is that you made a false claim and cannot provide any links to support it - because there aren't any - all the rest is simply an attempt to provide a smokescreen to cover the reality that your claim is nonsense.

 

---------- Post added 20-03-2014 at 07:36 ----------

 

And then you wonder why I don't comply to your demands.

 

I know exactly why you won't comply with my perfectly polite and reasonable requests to provide evidence of what you claim.

 

It's because there isn't any. It's a false claim.

 

---------- Post added 20-03-2014 at 07:38 ----------

 

It carries the same problems as smacking, both if done incorrectly can cause harm than good.

 

What are the problems with smacking in your view apart from the fact that it teaches children that violence is a good way to resolve problems?

[skinz]

 

What are the problems with smacking in your view apart from the fact that it teaches children that violence is a good way to resolve problems?

 

Quite obviously none, It has nothing to do with the child..has a lot to do with the perverted satisfaction our resident troll receives.