Gove : Bring Back 'Old Fashioned' Punishments

[slugger]

I'm not trying to wind anyone up. While the finer details may need some tweaking, I don't think my proposal is entirely without merit...

 

Education is never free by the way, it's paid for either through taxation out of the public purse, or directly, where people pay to go private.

 

I'm more inclined to the self-reliance end of the self-reliance - interdependency continuum in society. Too much interdependence and things start to break (as they are doing), people become weak and dependent on others, which is no good for the individual or for society at large.

 

In the natural world, there are serious consequences for not applying yourself full to the business of thriving and surviving. Creatures in the natural world, are out of necessity, fit for purpose on a level few humans achieve, whereas, in the human realm, it's like (to use an analogy) being in a rowing boat, everyone has an oar, but nobody really tries all that hard because they know someone else will take up the slack. Thus, we foster and encourage all kinds of ineptitude and dysfunction, as there are no real consequences for taking the ****.

 

Did you ever consider why man invented money, banks and laws ?

In the animal kingdom they take only what they need for survival!

In the human world we bicker for money.

No matter how much a man needs, he wants more, hence money, banks and laws.

Its the only way they can accumulate wealth without standing guard over everything they have laid claim to (physically impossible).

 

In the human realm Dependency is created merely because of human greed, money and laws.

 

If the laws of nature were applied to us humans, then I'm afraid size and weight would prevail, and all the 9 stone bankers would be ousted and the 16 stone muscles would take charge!

 

So you were saying about the natural world ?

[ivanava]

Did you ever consider why man invented money, banks and laws ?

In the animal kingdom they take only what they need for survival!

In the human world we bicker for money.

No matter how much a man needs, he wants more, hence money, banks and laws.

Its the only way they can accumulate wealth without standing guard over everything they have laid claim to (physically impossible).

 

In the human realm Dependency is created merely because of human greed, money and laws.

 

If the laws of nature were applied to us humans, then I'm afraid size and weight would prevail, and all the 9 stone bankers would be ousted and the 16 stone muscles would take charge!

 

So you were saying about the natural world ?

 

How do you account for the dominant male Elephant seal fighting to keep hold of its harem, it clearly doesn't need a beach full of females to survive, it could easily share and still survive, but it would rather fight to the death than share. This is just one of many examples of greed in the animal kingdom of which we are a part.

[Longcol]

How do you account for the dominant male Elephant seal fighting to keep hold of its harem, it clearly doesn't need a beach full of females to survive, it could easily share and still survive, but it would rather fight to the death than share. This is just one of many examples of greed in the animal kingdom of which we are a part.

 

Elephant seals?

 

We seem to have gone off the subject of Gove and onto Eric Pickles.

[slugger]

How do you account for the dominant male Elephant seal fighting to keep hold of its harem, it clearly doesn't need a beach full of females to survive, it could easily share and still survive, but it would rather fight to the death than share. This is just one of many examples of greed in the animal kingdom of which we are a part.

 

Pure and simple greed. Do's it use money to buy them?

[ivanava]

Elephant seals?

 

We seem to have gone off the subject of Gove and onto Eric Pickles.

 

:hihi::hihi:

[aliceBB]

Education, like the health service should be free at the point of service...but appreciated.

 

It is pretty obvious that 'traditional' punishments do not work. They may frighten a child into submission for a few hours or days, but they are not a long term fix and anyone who thinks they are, deludes himself.

 

Children usually misbehave because they crave attention. In their heads, a little negative attention (being told off, shouted at, taken out of lessons or even smacked) is better than no attention at all/being ignored or sidelined. Too many kids today have too little of the right kind of attention from their parents. They are the most photographed, but least conversed-with generation in human history. More of them than at any time since the 1800s are living with a lone parent or in a stepfamily (often with additional siblings they don't necessarily love). More of them live in poverty (albeit relative) or live with parents who work all hours to make ends meet, or because they want to progress up the career ladder. Put simply, they are not getting enough attention. Our need for self-esteem being what it is, we crave approval and interest, not to be ignored.

 

Teachers cannot be expected to make up the deficit when parents cannot or will not talk to, read to, play with, praise, or just spend time with their kids. Unless this parental input is made (day in, day out) when they're small, things only get worse when they are at secondary school.

 

And it's nothing to do with money. Some of the worst behaved kids in secondary schools come from the most materially affluent homes.

[ivanava]

 

Children usually misbehave because they crave attention. In their heads, a little negative attention (being told off, shouted at, taken out of lessons or even smacked) is better than no attention at all/being ignored or sidelined.

 

Not in my experience, they misbehave because they are bored and believe it or not some children find school incredibly boring.

[Happ Hazzard]

If they find school boring, how are they going to cope with work?

[ivanava]

If they find school boring, how are they going to cope with work?

 

They would likely choose a career that doesn't involve much of what is taught in schools, I've known kids that hate school, they spent as little time there as possible but can strip a car engine down and rebuild it, all without any training.

When you find something that a child is interested they will learn and won't be bored, try to teach something that they have no interest in and boredom will turn to bad behavior.

[aliceBB]

If they find school boring, how are they going to cope with work?

 

Quite. They probably aren't going to cope. Boredom can be a cause of bad behaviour, but if a kid has such a low boredom threshold that they find all school dull, then they do indeed have a problem. That tends to be an excuse used by parents to deflect the blame for their kid's inability to concentrate (when the rest of the class have no problem with it). If the teachers were genuinely very boring, they would have a riot on their hands, given the expectations of most pupils these days (they want all singing, all dancing in a way we never dreamed of in the 70s!).

 

If they are only interested in one or two subjects and misbehave in all the rest, that is also a reflection on the parents for allowing them to dismiss most of the curriculum without persevering. I have taught plenty of kids who would much rather have been out in the fields or on a building site than in a classroom, but they did not misbehave in lessons (my or anyone else's) because their parents had taught them that it is important to do their best and respect others' needs as well as their own.

 

Kids learn social skills, how to concentrate and respect others by being talked to, played with and worked with, one-to-one by people who have an emotional investment in them. You cannot spoil small children with too much love and attention - only with too much stuff and not enough time.