Why Are We Ripped Off So Much??

[L00b]

You are basically saying that the person who made this post has no justification to feeling to that particular way in the matter at all.

Not at all. Try not to interpret my posts into what you want them to read.

 

I'm "basically saying" that most people expect a premium product or service at a bargain basement price, often as not (and unsurprisingly) having to buy again after buying cheap. Whereby they whinge.

 

The problem is that most such people either never had any clue about what constitutes value-for-money (especially in a professional service) in the first place, or have lost this awareness after 4 years of recession in which all sorts of businesses in all walks of professional life have raced to the bottom for surviving, devaluing their market offer in the process.

 

This is quite different from "there is no justification for the OP to feel ripped off".

[salsafan]

Not at all. Try not to interpret my posts into what you want them to read.

 

I'm "basically saying" that most people expect a premium product or service at a bargain basement price, often as not (and unsurprisingly) having to buy again after buying cheap. Whereby they whinge.

 

The problem is that most such people either never had any clue about what constitutes value-for-money (especially in a professional service) in the first place, or have lost this awareness after 4 years of recession in which all sorts of businesses in all walks of professional life have raced to the bottom for surviving, devaluing their market offer in the process.

 

This is quite different from "there is no justification for the OP to feel ripped off".

Arrogance much ?

 

Try not to judge others, and then they won't actually fight you. It's that simple. As a consumer, it is up to them how they see value in a product, but you taking that right from them in the judgment, or for you to then say that they are "whinging". Those of us who watches our bottomline possibly care more than people like yourself. So please don't push others over into your way of thinking. Thank you so much.

 

I think what you will find is that, no business market their products as less superior, and your average consumer has to learn what is a better product and service overall. You may be surprised at how dishonest this practice really is. Most will try to curt that honesty line and promote the best quality within the product, but losing points in areas that they cannot deliver.

 

To say that a consumer has no right is quite ridiculous to be honest. You have to remember, it is never a "problem with people". Products and services are made for people to use. Not for businesses to exist purely for the sake of it. You have to remember this.

 

You work in the legal industry, and I work in the IT industry. Even though you may think that the services has been cheapened, but the reality is that, the market and the need of the services has to be dissected into a "need by" basis. People do not "need" things which is irrelevant to them, and even if you offer a full services, but they only need say 10% of what you are offering, then there is no point to charge them more. But what the OP is stating here is purely a value based judgment and of which he is entitled to. He is stating that single item that he needs is too high for its value. Rightly so, if you only need a single item.

 

Let me tell you what is of market hype. In 1998, a friend's father said that he charged a man 50 pounds to defragment his PC. 50 pounds. A child can click on the button today and do not charge for providing this service. I would not even insult a person and charge them this today.

[L00b]

Try not to judge others, and then they won't actually fight you. It's that simple. As a consumer, it is up to them how they see value in a product, but you taking that right from them in the judgment, or for you to then say that they are "whinging".

WTF?

 

I'm not taking anybody's right to appraise and appreciate value in a product or service. I'm not judging anyone, just observing and commenting.

 

And I'm commenting that a lot of people pay Lada/Alba prices and expect Mercedes/Bang & Olufsen features and benefits. It's a truism, doesn't evidence, it's all around you if you can be bothered to look and pay attention.

 

Feel free to disagree, but stop putting words in my mouth - it's getting a habit with you, and an annoying one at that.

Those of us who watches our bottomline possibly care more than people like yourself. So please don't push others over into your way of thinking. Thank you so much.

Again, I'm not asking/pushing anyone "over into my way of thinking". I watch my bottomline just like the next guy. Though I do appreciate that if you pay peanurt, you're going to get monkeys.

I think what you will find is that, no business market their products as less superior, and your average consumer has to learn what is a better product and service overall.

Your "average consumer" uses price point and brand values (both intrisically linked) first, when determining "what is a better product and service overall" prior to purchase.

To say that a consumer has no right is quite ridiculous to be honest. You have to remember, it is never a "problem with people". Products and services are made for people to use. Not for businesses to exist purely for the sake of it. You have to remember this.

Err...I'm finding it really difficult to follow your logic.

 

Where have I said, or even suggested, that consumers have no rights?

 

Where have I said, or or even suggested, that a market offer is there only for the offerring business to exist?

 

You work in the legal industry, and I work in the IT industry. Even though you may think that the services has been cheapened, but the reality is that, the market and the need of the services has to be dissected into a "need by" basis. People do not "need" things which is irrelevant to them, and even if you offer a full services, but they only need say 10% of what you are offering, then there is no point to charge them more.

So far as my industry is concerned, I don't "may think", I know for a fact that the services have been cheapened. By domestic and foreign competition who are buying work, in doing so giving the illusion that many aspects of the services (as-needed) are free/cheap when they most certainly are not. It's a very common practice known as loss-leading, used to reduce the volume of competition (as it strangles cashflow-challenged players).

 

When there's little enough competitioon left, that's when prices shoot up to unprecedented levels...since the needs still exist, but now there's only those few left who can provide it, at the price they can now dictate.

 

Don't mistake my comment about misplaced perceptions as to what constitutes value-for-money, for a rant about lower profits and such like: I certainly don't begrudge anyone getting a bargain - more power to them. I'm an assiduous HUKD follower myself. I just dislike, intensely, people who moan about bad value/bad service, when they got exactly what they paid for. It's that simple.

[salsafan]

And why does services go abroad and is not maintained in this country ? Cos we offer such high labour costs and ROI, and that is why it has gone abroad. There are some of us who is a little bit more clever is creating industries and job to stay in this country you know. I don't charge what is knowledgable and any joe blogg can understand. If I charge, then I charge what is appropiate. What you fail to see here is that "knowledge" is also a commodity, and it is still subject to supply and demand. What most companies do now is to provide integrated services, or integrated products and services to remain competitive. The way we live has changed, and no person can actually do a singular job any more. They have to be progressive with the times. That includes businesses too.

 

There is a lot of "you get what you pay for". Wake up and smell the coffee. I can get online and actually is able to find an accountant, who is both my book keeper, and can also give me legal advice too at 40 pounds per month.

 

To me, there is no reason why anyone get mediocre services or products for very little return. Of which there is many of this at this moment in time.

 

And I'm commenting that a lot of people pay Lada/Alba prices and expect Mercedes/Bang & Olufsen features and benefits. It's a truism, doesn't evidence, it's all around you if you can be bothered to look and pay attention.

 

It was indeed this kind of saturation on cheaper products which drove the economy to flip the other way, and have this "buy bulk, sell less, reduce operational cost" greed to begin with. At some point, these companies also go bust too. To me, there is a timeline of number of items that a person need in their own lifetime. They don't need all that much. It should never be the way of the world whereby a person NEED to buy an item that they don't need, in order to keep their own economy alive. How ridiculous is that ?

[L00b]

And why does services go abroad and is not maintained in this country ? Cos we offer such high labour costs and ROI, and that is why it has gone abroad. There are some of us who is a little bit more clever is creating industries and job to stay in this country you know. I don't charge what is knowledgable and any joe blogg can understand. If I charge, then I charge what is appropiate. What you fail to see here is that "knowledge" is also a commodity, and it is still subject to supply and demand.

Please, can you stop with the assumptions already!

 

I have dealt professionally in "knowledge" for nearly all of my professional life: my very job is to protect what makes that knowledge valuable, and for which people will pay <something> in the market place!

 

The basis on which you have criticised my posts shows how little you understand about this knowledge economy.

There is a lot of "you get what you pay for". Wake up and smell the coffee. I can get online and actually is able to find an accountant, who is both my book keeper, and can also give me legal advice too at 40 pounds per month.

Many professional services cannot be automated, the only cost savings to be had are from overhead optimisation.

 

Meaning (especially in a knowledge economy), besides watching the pennies with utilities/rents/similar minor costs of doing business, stalling investment and/or reducing wages. Is that what you want?

 

As regards legal advice from an accountant at £40 pm...

To me, there is a timeline of number of items that a person need in their own lifetime. They don't need all that much. It should never be the way of the world whereby a person NEED to buy an item that they don't need, in order to keep their own economy alive. How ridiculous is that ?

You're now leaning towards communist-inspired planned production and consumption. Forgive me for ignoring, quite deliberately, this demonstrably unrealistic option.

 

EDIT - let me take a very real example, and ask you about 'value'

 

background for info:

 

Whoever owns a registered intellectual property right (patent, design, trade marks) has to pay a nominal renewal fee to the national or regional IP office which issued the right, on a regular basis (usually annual) in order to keep the right alive and enforceable.

 

There are several Balkanic companies constantly mass-mailing applicant-owners of registered IP rights with letters that are personalised (correct addressee, correct title details with official references, etc. - easily obtained because such information is publicly available by law) and deliberately designed to be mistaken by the (legally-/procedurally-untrained) IP right owner for official correspondence from the national (or regional) IP office about renewing the right. You're talking several hundred $ or € a pop.

 

I shudder to think how many individuals and businesses have been taken in by this scam over the years. It doesn't matter how much time and £s have been spent playing legal whack-a-mole with them over the years (1 shut down, 3 new ones pop up overnight): it's a cheap scam to set up, highly lucractive and very low-risk.

 

rip off or not:

 

NOW, a client emails me after receiving one of these, and asks me if it's legit or not...

 

Considering:

• that detailed info with copy letters about the above is publicly available on WIPO's and the UKIPO's websites (see e.g. here and here, besides many other official sources warning against it), and
  
• that I'm about to save him both time finding this info for himself and €800

 

...according to you, will he be right or wrong to feel ripped off, if I charge him for 5 minutes of my time replying to his email?

[dutch]

Ordinary supermarkets are using scams to rip people off. Just your weekly shopping has to be done with absolute awareness at the big name shops that pretend to be your friend and help you.

Little unexplained charges are suddenly hidden in big bills, unexplained, camouflaged, few will notice and bother calling about it.

Products are engineered to only last a couple of years now so expensive replacement parts are needed after selling millions at half the price of the competition.

 

The market is full of tricks and pitfalls to manipulate your mind and emotions. Money is no longer treated as a simple exchange system but has become an insane battlefield of offers and deals with false promises and tricky hidden pitfalls and traps.

[psynuk]

Loob, I'd give it up as a bad job. She's like an accidental yet good natured troll. And as her grasp of written english isn't yet fully formed means that she often seems to 'put words in others mouths.' In your mind just prefix every sentence written with 'I think' and she becomes much less frustrating.

 

It's true that many people do expect a disproportionate service for the cost, but also true that the price of basic services has increased to silly amounts for simple things.

I can't decide weather this is due to lowering of standards in price war race/to the bottom or because the general advances in production mean things seem to be more reliable. And when they do break down that's now considered to be the end of their life cycle due to the mass production/economy of scale. So consequently 'little jobs' are almost the only jobs so are charged accordingly (no scale).

Your field, lawyers, doctors, teachers etc etc you definitely pays your price and takes your chance. If your trying to save money by scrimping.

 

 

how much you charge him for the email? >100?

[salsafan]

Not going to fight. No comment.

[psynuk]

Well, I learnt one thing though. Not to ask a solicitor's for advice and to go to the Citizen's Advice Bureau cos it is free.

 

If you believe that the CaB could advise you, then try them out, But if you believe that the CaB are in any way a suitable replacement aside from general advice and guidance, for an actual solicitor -who would be a specialist in the area your dealing with if you have any sense- then your mad.

 

(And I have no doubt about the capabilities of Cab advisors either-superb usually)

[salsafan]

No comment. Not relevant. This city is way too small for my liking. Very judgmental, snobbish and arrogant people around for sure !