Fed up of non believers

[Waldo]

I do not know if I am an atheist, as I do not know what god is. I do believe that it is an unknowable quantity, though I do not know this. I have all kinds of thoughts feelings and perceptions on the matter ... do any of these constitute a belief in god (even though I am not using the label 'god' in my own mind)?

 

Is it required that we know what we're talking about when we say 'god', in order to know if a person is an atheist or not; and so if god is an unknowable quantity, doesn't that make the word atheist (and the word god for the matter) meaningless?

[Lockjaw]

As I said, produce an alternative definition to that of the professors by an equally qualified person and we'll carry on that particular debate.

 

You can't, You are wrong but being the type you are, you don't have the character to admit it.

 

All the straw clutching diversionary tactics in the world aren't going to make you look less foolish.

 

You really are becoming tiresome you know. Tell me, did you leave school, go to college, attend university and then start teaching?

 

Or have you actually at some point had a proper job and experienced what the real worlds like?

 

It strikes me as probably the former, never having had to deal with other adults on an equal footing.

 

Mixing with immature kids all day, not having to deal with any opposing viewpoint, unable to handle it when it comes, and resorting to childish taunts when confronted.

 

I know quite a number of teachers including several cousins, a niece and two friends.

 

On a few occasions I have had to gently ( I like them ) remind some of them that they are not addressing a classroom when speaking to me.

 

Your little jibe about psychology went badly wrong didn't it?

 

My retort regarding your lack of affection hit home didn't it?

 

In general, especially the first and last couple of sentences, see post 494.

 

As for the direct questions, I was pushing thirty when I entered teaching, prior to which I had various jobs including a bit of roofing and some military stuff. And, yourself?

[milquetoast1]

Is it required that we know what we're talking about when we say 'god', in order to know if a person is an atheist or not;

 

No.

 

If you believe in god, whether you know what it even is, then you are a theist. Otherwise you are an atheist.

[ivanava]

No he hasn't, he has come to the conclusion that he was wrong with regard to his belief in God(s).

 

That shows him in a good light in my opinion. It shows that despite at one time being an evangelical Christian he kept an open mind and kept on thinking.I disagree with his conclusion but respect his right to hold it.

 

It does not in any way invalidate his whole life's work.

 

In fact with regard to definitions if anything it actually makes him more of an expert. He has obviously thought long and hard about the differing beliefs and their meanings.

 

Yet he is still confused about the meaning of disbelief, which simply mean, unable to accept that something is true, and not that something is false.

[Waldo]

No.

 

If you believe in god, whether you know what it even is, then you are a theist. Otherwise you are an atheist.

 

I may or may not believe in god. I believe in all kind of things and things that are not things. I do now know if one of them is the god thing everyone talks about. My awareness is like plastic and changes from moment to moment.

 

It is unknowable if I do, or do not (believe in god), am I an atheist?

 

I am not completely sure what believe means either. Sometimes I do not know what 'I' means. Surely all of these need to be known quantities (I believe and god), before one can know if one is an atheist or not?

 

Also,I generally do not engage mentally in the act of beleif or disbelief.

 

One who does not believe (engage in the mental activity of believing) in god but who has direct non-cognitive experience of what others may call god, but he chooses not to. Is such a person an atheist?

[ivanava]

I do not know if I am an atheist, as I do not know what god is. I do believe that it is an unknowable quantity, though I do not know this. I have all kinds of thoughts feelings and perceptions on the matter ... do any of these constitute a belief in god (even though I am not using the label 'god' in my own mind)?

 

Is it required that we know what we're talking about when we say 'god', in order to know if a person is an atheist or not; and so if god is an unknowable quantity, doesn't that make the word atheist (and the word god for the matter) meaningless?

 

Why do you believe that it is unknowable when you don't even know what it is.

 

All that is required to be atheist is not being theist, to be agnostic you have to believe that it is at least possible and to believe that its possible you would surely need to know what it is that's possible.

 

---------- Post added 03-03-2014 at 09:27 ----------

 

I may or may not believe in god. I believe in all kind of things and things that are not things. I do now know if one of them is the god thing everyone talks about. My awareness is like plastic and changes from moment to moment.

 

It is unknowable if I do, or do not (believe in god), am I an atheist?

 

I am not completely sure what believe means either. Sometimes I do not know what 'I' means. Surely all of these need to be known quantities (I believe and god), before one can know if one is an atheist or not?

 

Also,I generally do not engage mentally in the act of beleif or disbelief.

 

One who does not believe (engage in the mental activity of believing) in god but who has direct non-cognitive experience of what others may call god, but he chooses not to. Is such a person an atheist?

 

You are describing Ignostic and I can live with that.

[Cyclone]

You know that keyboard you used to type that post? That thing that you can touch and responds to you touching it? You know what made that possible? Science.

 

More accurately though, engineering.

[mjw47]

In general, especially the first and last couple of sentences, see post 494.

 

As for the direct questions, I was pushing thirty when I entered teaching, prior to which I had various jobs including a bit of roofing and some military stuff. And, yourself?

 

Good, so you have at least some experience of the real world, obviously apart from the military stuff, which in peacetime is boys with toys, and in wartime plain stupidity.

 

Me? Construction industry until 19 then electronic security systems. Worked in every position from trainee installer to regional director of a PLC. Started my own business in 1984 sold it in 2000 and apart from helping out a friend in his recruitment business for eighteen months have been retired since.

 

It's why I have too much time on my hands.

[ivanava]

More accurately though, engineering.

 

Or human ingenuity and imagination.

[Waldo]

@ivanava

 

Sorry, on iPad again, so problematic using quotes.

 

I understand what you are saying. These is another option, that is, not to contemplate the matter of the shirt, in any way, shape or form, to not mentally entertain the matter.

 

This is different from giving an unknowable matter some thought. I would consider it the primary categorisation. Is a person giving the matter any attention or not? If they are, you can then get in to all kinds of sub categories (does the matter make cognitive sense? is the matter knowable? does one have an affirmative belief or not? etc etc)

Edited March 3, 2014 by Waldo