Fed up of non believers

[danot]

These are the options.

 

1. The universe exists and as always existed.

 

2. The universe popped into existence from nothing without a cause.

 

3. The universe popped into existence from nothing and was caused by something that is unknown to us, possibly a God. This God or something that is unknown as always existed or was created by something else that as always existed.

 

1. looks to me like the sensible option, whilst 2. and 3. look ridiculous.

!

 

To me, it looks like all three are equally as ridiculous as each other, although, I do concede that 3 is flawed with a contradiction, but, even that doesn't alter my belief.

[ivanava]

!

 

To me, it looks like all three are equally as ridiculous as each other, although, I do concede that 3 is flawed with a contradiction, but, even that doesn't alter my belief.

 

They are the options, one of them is true, pick the one that is the least ridiculous.

[danot]

They are the options, one of them is true, pick the one that is the least ridiculous.

 

How can I when the plausibility of the notion of something that has always existed without cause, the notion of something popping into existence from nothing without cause and the notion of something that has always existed being the cause of the universe's existence is being severely compromised by common sense.

[ivanava]

How can I when the plausibility of the notion of something that has always existed without cause, the notion of something popping into existence from nothing without cause and the notion of something that has always existed being the cause of the universe's existence is being severely compromised by common sense.

 

Look at it from the other direction.

 

Do you think the universe will one day cease to exist or do you think it will last for ever, possibly it in a different form?

[danot]

Look at it from the other direction.

 

Do you think the universe will one day cease to exist or do you think it will last for ever, possibly it in a different form?

 

I have no reason to believe that it will exist forever; whether in it's present form or a different one. I just can't say as I don't understand the nature of the universe. But what I firmly believe is- Everything that exists is the product of cause and nothing can exist without cause, regardless of our inability to explain the cause of the universe.

[ivanava]

I have no reason to believe that it will exist forever; whether in it's present form or a different one. I just can't say as I don't understand the nature of the universe. But what I firmly believe is- Everything that exists is the product of cause and nothing can exist without cause, regardless of our inability to explain the cause of the universe.

 

We will have to agree to disagree in that case, because no matter how hard I try and can't even imagine nothing, or everything coming from nothing and eventually reverting to nothing.

[danot]

We will have to agree to disagree in that case, because no matter how hard I try and can't even imagine nothing, or everything coming from nothing and eventually reverting to nothing.

 

I can't imagine flies that materialize from nowhere but fruit flies seem to have mastered the ability. Maybe it was fruit flies that created the universe? I guess we'll never know!!

[mjw47]

Of cause you can, you can believe that something is possible without actually believing it exist.

 

 

 

No they are not, agnostics are just people with out knowledge, a new born baby is agnostic because they have no knowledge, once they have some knowledge they are no long agnostic.

 

 

 

You are incorrect, I know that omnipotence isn't possible and I know that Gods must be omnipotent to be defined as God.

 

---------- Post added 04-03-2014 at 15:12 ----------

 

 

That would make you an agnostic atheist. (agnostic, zero knowledge,) (atheist no believe in God.)

 

Your first point makes little sense, please give me an example.

 

Agnosticism is a belief, the belief being that whilst there may be God(s) or there may be no God(s) there is no way of ever knowing, and that therefore the most logical position is to accept that fact and not commit yourself to an unprovable theory.

 

It is a conscious decision to make that choice, baby's simply lack all knowledge of such matters, they are not agnostic, just unknowing. For you to use that example shows you do not know what you are talking about.

 

Once again you confuse your opinion with facts. You do not 'know' that omnipotence is impossible, you just think it is, and because you think it then it must be true.

That is not how things work, whether you like it or not.

 

I don't know how many times I have had to make this point now. There is no such thing as an agnostic atheist, it is an impossible combination, it is in fact an oxymoron.

 

Theists, atheists and agnostics are three different beliefs.

 

An agnostic accepts that there may be God(s) but impossible to know. An atheist believes there are no God(s) and does not accept the possibility that there may be.

 

An agnostic accepts that there may be no God(s) but impossible to know. A theist does not accept the possibility that there is no God(s).

 

If there were only Theists and atheists, then the word agnostic would not exist would it?

 

It does exist though and has a different meaning to the other two beliefs.

Edited March 5, 2014 by mjw47

[shaznay]

700 + posts, we can argue till the cows come home

 

you either believe or you don't

and no one will convince you otherwise

[ivanava]

Your first point makes little sense, please give me an example.

 

I believe life on other worlds is possible, I actuality also believe that it exists, but I could just as easily have no belief in its existence whilst holding the position that it is possible.

 

 

 

Agnosticism is a belief, the belief being that whilst there may be God(s) or there may be no God(s) there is no way of ever knowing, and that therefore the most logical position is to accept that fact and not commit yourself to an unprovable theory.

 

Its only logical in your eyes because you believe that its not possible to know if God exists, its the position of someone with a closed mind, you never have to confront the question because you believe the question is unanswerable. You will never confront the evidence in support or against because again you don't think its possible to know. Its simply an opinion based on lack of knowledge.

 

 

 

Once again you confuse your opinion with facts. You do not 'know' that omnipotence is impossible, you just think it is, and because you think it then it must be true.

That is not how things work, whether you like it or not.

 

I can assure you that I know that it isn't possible, but because your mind is closed you are unable to examine the evidence. You are in the position in which it is easier to bury your head in the sand because you can't confront the evidence.

 

 

I don't know how many times I have had to make this point now. There is no such thing as an agnostic atheist, it is an impossible combination, it is in fact an oxymoron.

You can make it as many times as you like but it won't change the fact that someone without belief in God and without knowledge is an agnostic atheist.

 

 

Theists, atheists and agnostics are three different beliefs.

Theist is belief in God, atheist can be both a belief that God does not exist and a lack of belief in God, agnostic is simply someone with no knowledge.

 

 

An agnostic accepts that there may be God(s) but impossible to know. An atheist believes there are no God(s) and does not accept the possibility that there may be.

 

An agnostic accepts that there may be no God(s) but impossible to know. A theist does not accept the possibility that there is no God(s).

 

You are incorrect.

 

If there were only Theists and atheists, then the word agnostic would not exist would it?

 

It does exist though and has a different meaning to the other two beliefs.

 

Yes because it describes someone without knowledge.

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2014 at 07:07 ----------

 

700 + posts, we can argue till the cows come home

 

you either believe or you don't

and no one will convince you otherwise

 

Many people have changed their view on the existence of God, so why do you think no one of SF will change their position.

Edited March 5, 2014 by ivanava