Fed up of non believers

[SnailyBoy]

Do you ask because you genuinely want to know?, or because you like to argue, and find it gratifying to be seen to come out on top? What's your motive for asking?

 

More than happy to explore the matter with you, and share my perspective, but only if you're open and have the right intent.

 

I want to know why you think having a rational view of the world is unhealthy?

[mjw47]

If you don't hold a belief, you have an absence of belief.

 

Absence of belief in the existence of God or gods = atheism.

Belief in the existence of God or gods = theism.

Agnostics, who don't know either way, can still hold the belief that God or gods exist. They don't know if God exists, but they hold the belief that God does exist. Agnostics can also have an absence of that belief.

 

If you don't hold a belief at all with regard to something it would imply that you have given it no thought whatsoever.

 

For instance, I have no interest in American baseball and only have a vague idea as to a few of the clubs names.

 

Therefore, in the event of someone inquiring of me as to who I thought would win the World series this year I could state with some conviction that I hold no belief whatsoever as to who will triumph.

 

With regard to the question of whether or not there is a God however, you would need to give some consideration to the question before you would consider referring to yourself as an atheist wouldn't you?

 

Otherwise you are giving yourself a description without thought.

 

If you describe yourself with a word which has the basic meaning 'without God' you shouldn't then be too surprised when people make the assumption that you belief there is no God.

[ivanava]

Which would mean that he/she could describe his/her belief by using one word instead of two, doesn't it?

 

Your second definition above is fully covered by the word agnostic isn't it?

 

Agnostic : Someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities.

 

The use of the word agnostic implies doubt, and an acceptance of lack of knowledge.

 

Someone stating that they are an atheist solely is claiming that they believe that there is no God 'a' without + theos God.

 

Anyone disputing this would need to explain why there are two different words in the dictionaries with two differing definitions.

 

No it isn't,

 

I believe that God exists despite also believing that it is imposable to know for sure. Agnostic Theist.

 

I believe that God does not exist despite also believing that it is imposable to know for sure. Agnostic Atheist.

 

I Know that God exists. Gnostic Theist.

 

I Know that God does not exist. Gnostic Atheist.

 

Agnostic on its own doesn't tell us whether or not a person believes or doesn't believe in the existence of God, it just tells us that they believe it is impossible to know one way or the other.

[mjw47]

 

Agnostic on its own doesn't tell us whether or not a person believes or doesn't believe in the existence of God, it just tells us that they believe it is impossible to know one way or the other.

 

Which tells you precisely and exactly ( forgive the tautology ) what they believe.

 

An agnostic believes that because there is no proof either way, it is irrational to hold a belief that either theory is correct.

 

Therefore, until proof is provided of either contention, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves as to do either would involve holding a none verifiable belief which seems pointless.

[Cyclone]

Cyclone.

 

If you think that it is irrational to believe anything other than your statement 'How can you use anything more than reason and rationality to make sense of the world around us'.

 

Perhaps you can explain what is irrational about acknowledging that no one actually knows the truth regarding the existence or none existence of God?

I've explained a dozen times.

 

Whilst your at it, lets have your personal definition of the word agnostic.

No, I don't think so.

 

As you appear to disagree with the definitions of 'authority' lets be knowing your infinitely wiser description.

 

Never said I disagreed, now you're just making things up.

 

It's your poor debating style I don't like.

 

---------- Post added 11-03-2014 at 13:25 ----------

 

Which tells you precisely and exactly ( forgive the tautology ) what they believe.

 

An agnostic believes that because there is no proof either way, it is irrational to hold a belief that either theory is correct.

 

Therefore, until proof is provided of either contention, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves as to do either would involve holding a none verifiable belief which seems pointless.

 

In this case an agnostic will believe in all manner of myths which by their nature cannot be proven not to exist (and due to not existing cannot be proven to exist).

Hence anyone with this mental state is clearly not rational.

[SnailyBoy]

Which tells you precisely and exactly ( forgive the tautology ) what they believe.

 

An agnostic believes that because there is no proof either way, it is irrational to hold a belief that either theory is correct.

 

Therefore, until proof is provided of either contention, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves as to do either would involve holding a none verifiable belief which seems pointless.

 

That's ignoring evidence to support a belief.

 

A theist has a position that a belief in a god is justified. I however don't feel the evidence presented supports that position, therefore I have a lack of belief.

Edited March 11, 2014 by SnailyBoy

[Ryedo40]

If you don't hold a belief at all with regard to something it would imply that you have given it no thought whatsoever.

 

Atheism/atheist are descriptive terms. They are used to pigeon hole or describe a persons state of being.

 

If you have no knowledge or awareness of an actual God existing, you'd have an absence of belief in the existence God(unless you believed otherwise). If you've given it no thought whatsoever, you'd still have an absence of belief in the existence of God. In both cases, the word used to describe that persons state would be atheist.

 

You can be exposed to the claims that a God exists, but if you find no good reason to believe those claims, and you have no knowledge or awareness of an actual God existing, you'd still have an absence of belief in the existence of God. You'd still be atheist.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Ryedo40

[ivanava]

Which tells you precisely and exactly ( forgive the tautology ) what they believe.

 

An agnostic believes that because there is no proof either way, it is irrational to hold a belief that either theory is correct.

 

Therefore, until proof is provided of either contention, an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves as to do either would involve holding a none verifiable belief which seems pointless.

 

Which brings us back to if you don't believe you must lack belief so must be atheist. The only people that aren't atheist are those people that have belief in a God or Gods.

[Waldo]

I want to know why you think having a rational view of the world is unhealthy?

 

I did not say that. Did you misunderstand my post, or are you intentionally trying to misrepresent me?

 

You're beginning to answer my previous question by the way, re: you're intent.

 

---------- Post added 11-03-2014 at 15:23 ----------

 

A very scary paragraph. How can you use anything other than reason and rationality to make sense of the world around us. What do you suggest should have emphasis placed on it instead, guessing, making it up and weird feelings?

 

Scary, how?

 

Guessing? No.

Making it up? No.

Weird feelings? Not sure what you mean by this, or how do you decide a feeling is 'weird'?

 

There is no place in your reality for intuition, compassion, love, appreciation of beauty, desire to live, non-congnative awareness?

 

There is a lot more to being human that just cognitive mental process, logic, reason etc.

[SnailyBoy]

I did not say that. Did you misunderstand my post, or are you intentionally trying to misrepresent me?

 

You're beginning to answer my previous question by the way, re: you're intent.

 

My intent, curiosity

 

You said

 

Thanks for posting the link. Looks interesting (long though).

 

It's good you mention compassion; I can't help but feel with some people there is too much mind and not enough heart (and I include myself in that description). We place an unhealthy emphasis on reason and rationality when it comes to making sense of the world around us. To the point where only things that can be measured and cognitively grasped within the framework of our rational minds, hold any value for us.

 

So how is reason and rationality unhealthy?