Fed up of non believers

[Ryedo40]

We place an unhealthy emphasis on reason and rationality when it comes to making sense of the world around us. To the point where only things that can be measured and cognitively grasped within the framework of our rational minds, hold any value for us.

 

If we didn't place emphasis on reason and rationality when making sense of the world, or ourselves, we'd be doing all sorts of baseless & insane stuff.

 

Asking someone to clarify what they mean isn't unhealthy.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Ryedo40

[SnailyBoy]

 

Scary, how?

 

Guessing? No.

Making it up? No.

Weird feelings? Not sure what you mean by this, or how do you decide a feeling is 'weird'?

 

There is no place in your reality for intuition, compassion, love, appreciation of beauty, desire to live, non-congnative awareness?

 

There is a lot more to being human that just cognitive mental process, logic, reason etc.

 

Compassion - We're social creatures, in simple terms being nice to people will hopefully mean it'll be reciprocated. Shouldn't need a promise for better things in some other existence

 

Love - Really, You can't be rational and feel love for others, how does that work?

 

Appreciation of beauty - Once again, really? How does being rational exclude that?

 

Desire to Live - Why not, there's nothing to die for.

 

Non-Cognitive Awareness - Ahh, the old no morals theory I presume.

[Waldo]

@SnailyBoy.

 

Okay, curiosity it is then.

 

Indeed, that is what I said. From which you drew the conclusion that I think having a rational view of the world is unhealthy? Which is not at all representative of my position and understanding.

 

As with most things, I see rationality as a valuable tool when one employs it appropriately, and understands it's strengths, limitations and nature.

 

I feel too much emphasis on reason and rationality, focuses and locks your attention in to your own head, to the detriment of your whole being (happiness, peace of mind, physical well-being etc).

[SnailyBoy]

@SnailyBoy.

 

Okay, curiosity it is then.

 

Indeed, that is what I said. From which you drew the conclusion that I think having a rational view of the world is unhealthy? Which is not at all representative of my position and understanding.

 

As with most things, I see rationality as a valuable tool when one employs it appropriately, and understands it's strengths, limitations and nature.

 

I feel too much emphasis on reason and rationality, focuses and locks your attention in to your own head, to the detriment of your whole being (happiness, peace of mind, physical well-being etc).

 

So in your mind what would a world be like that was based solely on rationality and reason?

[Waldo]

If we didn't place emphasis on reason and rationality when making sense of the world, or ourselves, we'd be doing all sorts of baseless & insane stuff.

 

"To the point where only things that can be measured and cognitively grasped within the framework of our rational minds, hold any value for us."

 

Yes, reason and logic have their place (am a programmer for gods sake), but for anything to be of value to you, must it be measurable? How does one quantify the joy of being alive?

 

Asking someone to clarify what they mean isn't unhealthy.

 

Yes. I totally agree. Ideally in a spirit of understanding other people and learning (rather than a game of egotistical one-up-man-ship).

[mjw47]

I've explained a dozen times.

No, I don't think so.

 

Never said I disagreed, now you're just making things up.

 

It's your poor debating style I don't like.

 

---------- Post added 11-03-2014 at 13:25 ----------

 

 

In this case an agnostic will believe in all manner of myths which by their nature cannot be proven not to exist (and due to not existing cannot be proven to exist).

Hence anyone with this mental state is clearly not rational.

 

You haven't explained at all, because you are incapable of doing so, so don't worry about it.

 

And again no chance of a definition from you because you don't have one which would differ and be acceptable as an alternative to those known by the majority of people with common sense.

 

So your repetitive comments about my appealing to authority when I referenced quotes which disagreed with your version of events did not mean that you disagreed with them?

Good to know, means you agree with me then.

 

As for my debating style, I suppose it's difficult to like something when it keeps highlighting how poor you are at responding.

 

Do tell, what manner of myths do agnostics believe which theists and atheists are impervious to?

 

Perhaps it hasn't occurred to you that people do not always apply the same level of rigour to every aspect of their lives?

 

Whether we like it or not religion and various belief systems have had a significant impact on the history of the world.

That justifies giving some serious thought to the subject, whatever conclusion you reach.

 

Believing that your team is going to win their next game, or that your choice of shirt is going to impress is not quite on the same level is it?

 

Both are open to debate, one will turn out to be true or false, the other is entirely subjective.

[Waldo]

So in your mind what would a world be like that was based solely on rationality and reason?

 

It would be pretty damn miserable and joyless.

 

Which, to be honest, you do see a lot of miserable people out and about in our culture.

 

I'm not anti-reason by the way. In fact, I work in an area where I get to use a lot of reason and logic and combine it with intuition and artistic expression. For the most part, I love that. There's a healthy balance and synergy between different aspects or functions of my own being (use of logic, with, use of intuition / creativity).

[Ryedo40]

I feel too much emphasis on reason and rationality, focuses and locks your attention in to your own head, to the detriment of your whole being (happiness, peace of mind, physical well-being etc).

 

Trying to understand something, solve something, or discover something - using reason, logic, etc - can all bring joy, happiness and peace of mind.

 

So I don't necessarily agree with you here.

 

I think if a world was based entirely on reason and rationality, it would still have joy, happiness and peace of mind.

[SnailyBoy]

It would be pretty damn miserable and joyless.

 

Which, to be honest, you do see a lot of miserable people out and about in our culture.

 

I'm not anti-reason by the way. In fact, I work in an area where I get to use a lot of reason and logic and combine it with intuition and artistic expression. For the most part, I love that. There's a healthy balance and synergy between different aspects or functions of my own being (use of logic, with, use of intuition / creativity).

 

Yeah, you might see miserable people out and about, but to equate that the reason and rationality. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

I still don't understand how being rational would affect physical well being, a rational view would be 'if I eat too much, don't exercise, I could die'.

[Waldo]

Trying to understand something, solve something, or discover something - using reason, logic, etc - can all bring joy, happiness and peace of mind.

 

I'm trying to relate that to my own experience. It's difficult, because on the one hand, I find reason and logic can bring a sense of clarity, which in my book is a very good thing. Peace of mind, perhaps; certainly clarity is preferable to muddy thinking, with regards to cultivating peace of mind.

 

However, there is still thought involved, and I wouldn't associate a noisy (thinking) mind with 'peace of mind'. I'd be more thinking, a quiet settled mind equates to 'peace of mind' (and peace of whole being).

 

So I don't necessarily agree with you here.

 

No problem. Please feel free to share how you see things differently.

 

I think if a world was based entirely on reason and rationality, it would still have joy, happiness and peace of mind.

 

I guess just not to let rationality (cognitively understanding and building a mental map of reality and fitting everything neatly in to one category or another) detract from our full and complete 'human experience', including joy, love, happiness, peace, humour, intuition, feeling what our hearts tell us, really knowing ourselves, being free from fear, and proud of who we are.

 

Where does joy and happiness come from?

Edited March 11, 2014 by Waldo
typo