Private vs public

[samssong]

Some things should not be run for profit. Care homes for example.

 

Let's see, how can we maximise profit? Well, we can cut back on staff and manage with the bare minimum, and if that means residents have to wait longer to go to the toilet, tough. And we can cut down on food and drink, so forget the milky horlicks and chocolate biscuit at night, and we'll buy the cheapest ingredients we can get, and cut down portions. And then we can sack the expensive enrichment officer and close the craftroom, that should save a bit, they can all sit and watch telly instead. And forget trips out - do they think we're made of money?

 

That should make more money for the shareholders, they should be well pleased...

 

To top it all the much loved and needed Hurlfield View dementier centre has had to close due to lack of funds ,although funds can be found for planning shopping centres that have not yet been built even after twenty years of so called town planning.

[tinfoilhat]

Some things should not be run for profit. Care homes for example.

 

Let's see, how can we maximise profit? Well, we can cut back on staff and manage with the bare minimum, and if that means residents have to wait longer to go to the toilet, tough. And we can cut down on food and drink, so forget the milky horlicks and chocolate biscuit at night, and we'll buy the cheapest ingredients we can get, and cut down portions. And then we can sack the expensive enrichment officer and close the craftroom, that should save a bit, they can all sit and watch telly instead. And forget trips out - do they think we're made of money?

 

That should make more money for the shareholders, they should be well pleased...

 

My father got far worse grub in a council care home than private and paid broadly the same. You're making the error of private bad public good and it's a lot more complicated than that.

[taxman]

The problem is that when private train companies/gas companies/banks/care homes/ etc etc go bust they all get bailed out by public taxpayers.

 

Never works the other way does it?

[I1L2T3]

Except of course there is little profit in public services. The wastage of public money by overmanning, poor management and lack of incentive to bother in the public sector is atrocious, and costs taxpayers billions.

 

It can be very profitable if done in certain ways. Unfortunately that can mean taxpayers paying more and getting less in return.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2017 at 08:27 ----------

 

My father got far worse grub in a council care home than private and paid broadly the same. You're making the error of private bad public good and it's a lot more complicated than that.

 

Indeed. Basically everything that is non-council, not-state etc... is classed as private but that includes charitable operators, not for profit companies, ethically run private companies.

 

There's plenty of room for the state to work with the best of the private sector, and even with big PLCs if they offer the right services at the right price. There is ample room for partnership.

 

The Labour left mantra of nationalise everything is as bad as the Tory mantra of privatise everything. Both are completely nuts.

[Anna B]

It can be very profitable if done in certain ways. Unfortunately that can mean taxpayers paying more and getting less in return.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2017 at 08:27 ----------

 

 

Indeed. Basically everything that is non-council, not-state etc... is classed as private but that includes charitable operators, not for profit companies, ethically run private companies.

 

There's plenty of room for the state to work with the best of the private sector, and even with big PLCs if they offer the right services at the right price. There is ample room for partnership.

 

The Labour left mantra of nationalise everything is as bad as the Tory mantra of privatise everything. Both are completely nuts.

Indeed. Which is why a case by case compromise is usually the best way forward. Which is exactly what Jeremy Corbyn is proposing to do.

[Cyclone]

Which is best?

 

There arnt many examples of directly comparable private vs public.

 

Private rented vs council, I have just moved into a council house and its much better than my previous private rented terraced house.

 

Private vs council, sports centres; I have just signed up to pay monthly at my local council gym.. I believe the council run sports centres are cheaper than comparable private gyms.

 

So it seems council run facilities win hands down, so why do the Conservatives want to privatise things?

 

Two examples and you think that you've identified a general pattern?

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2017 at 14:57 ----------

 

Cause it ultimately costs the Government money to run council services, but it ultimately profits the Government to have private companies doing it right, making a profit, paying tax.

 

/thread.

 

The example was a council sports centre, which can quite clearly be run at break even and not cost the government anything. It can also be cheaper than a private facility because there is no requirement or desire to make a profit.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2017 at 14:59 ----------

 

Schools. No comparison.

 

 

 

There's a lot to compare actually, starting with the amount spent per pupil.

If you're saying that private schooling is better then it would probably be down to the amount spent being significantly higher. Of course the final bill to the parent is even higher because there's also a profit to be made.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2017 at 15:05 ----------

 

Your daughter clearly is doing well, which is great. You can't dispute the figures though. Independent schools get far better results. Not comparable in price to a great extent but the results are significantly better.

 

There will always be excellent pupils at state schools and your daughter would appear to be one however the number of excellent pupils is higher in independent schools.

 

 

Spend more, get a better outcome, hardly surprising.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2017 at 15:08 ----------

 

I am open to others experiences, but lots of people use council gyms, I dont have any experience of private gyms.

 

I've used both, depending on how much you pay they are comparable, the council facilities are cheaper to get the same level of equipment, for example, membership at Ponds Forge includes a well equipped modern gym, an olympic pool, classes, sauna, steam room, etc... Considerably cheaper than a any comparable facility (can you find a private gym in Sheffield with an olympic pool?)

[El Cid]

Two examples and you think that you've identified a general pattern?

 

I believe private and public can both bring good value, I dont believe that ideologically, one is better than the other.

It depends on regulation and the goals of a contract; private can undercut the public sector because they cut costs.

Private schools and hospitals are perceived as being better, but then private organisations go bust too.

[Anna B]

Unfortunately the perception of 'private' being better pervades our entire, class-ridden society. This alone often affects the success of certain enterprises.

[Scutts]

....so why do the Conservatives want to privatise things?

 

Simple, the Tories rich friends can make far more money out of privatised companies than publicly run concerns.

[Anna B]

Simple, the Tories rich friends can make far more money out of privatised companies than publicly run concerns.

 

Ain't that the truth. I'd love to know who really owns the companies that get the contracts. Cameron and croneyism are only the tip of the iceberg.