flamingjimmy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 [/b] Because your argument is that at the point of death all brains are physically functioning the same due to lack of oxygen, endorphins and the like which gives rise to the same hallucination. No it isn't, my argument is that all the brains are going through the same process (ceasing to function, or getting very close to it) and so it's only natural that people have similar hallucinations. My argument does not depend on exactly the same activity being present in all areas of the brain at precisely the same time. People's brains are different, lots of people have near death experiences without seeing anything at all. I'm saying that it's coming from the brain, so the fact that different people see different things makes sense, because we're all different and our brains are not the same, we've all had different experiences too. You're the one who's claiming these experiences have an external source, so you're the one who needs them to be consistent for your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandr Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Can you explain near death experiences then? When people have 'died,' gone on a journey, and come back? All of the 'lack of oxygen in the brain' theories etc have been disproved. Quote your sources! Disproved by whom? I experienced something similar under general anaesthetic that I attribute to the Fentanyl. I certainly didn't 'die'! These are nothing more than dreams and confabulations - a temporarily dysfunctional brain trying to make some kind of sense from an altered state of function and perception. There is no need to consider any supernatural explanation. There never is. ---------- Post added 08-03-2014 at 00:10 ---------- How can you know that? Empirically speaking? Or is it simply tautology like the OP - namely that here the term "functional brain" is implicitly defined as a 'system giving rise to consciousness'? Okay, so how do I know that I didn't fall in love with my wife because I was hit in the heart by one of Cupid's arrows? After all, by your logic, just because I didn't see it happen doesn't mean that it didn't happen! Look, just because some whacko comes up with a daft story, doesn't mean we have to believe it! If there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for something and there isn't any evidence to support an unreasonable explanation, then there isn't any reason to believe the unreasonable explanation! ---------- Post added 08-03-2014 at 00:11 ---------- Just out of interest, especially with your job, do you find you have or have had any problems with electricity; shocks, gadgets going wrong, that sort of thing? Apparently, people sometimes experience this sort of phenomenon for a time after an Near death Experience. No they don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 No it isn't, my argument is that all the brains are going through the same process (ceasing to function, or getting very close to it) and so it's only natural that people have similar hallucinations. My argument does not depend on exactly the same activity being present in all areas of the brain at precisely the same time. People's brains are different, lots of people have near death experiences without seeing anything at all. I'm saying that it's coming from the brain, so the fact that different people see different things makes sense, because we're all different and our brains are not the same, we've all had different experiences too. You're the one who's claiming these experiences have an external source, so you're the one who needs them to be consistent for your argument. Everything comes from the brain. All our sensory systems are entirely dependent on the brain and how it interprets things. So are we all living in the matrix? Or are you saying that anything our brain sees must be a delusion if it doesn't correspond to your version of what is 'acceptable?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Everything comes from the brain. All our sensory systems are entirely dependent on the brain and how it interprets things. So are we all living in the matrix?Please explain coherently how 'we are all living in the matrix' is a consequence of my reasoning and I will gladly answer you. Or are you saying that anything our brain sees must be a delusion if it doesn't correspond to your version of what is 'acceptable?'I find it very strange when people use inverted commas or quotation marks in sarcy posts like that when they're not actually quoting anyone. "Acceptable" is a word you've chosen to use not me there was no need to put it in inverted commas other than in some sort of attempt to put words in my mouth. Not just you people seem to do it quite often and it kind of bugs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Please explain coherently how 'we are all living in the matrix' is a consequence of my reasoning and I will gladly answer you. I find it very strange when people use inverted commas or quotation marks in sarcy posts like that when they're not actually quoting anyone. "Acceptable" is a word you've chosen to use not me there was no need to put it in inverted commas other than in some sort of attempt to put words in my mouth. Not just you people seem to do it quite often and it kind of bugs me. Sorry to bug you, quite unintentional. Neither do I believe we're living in the matrix, but some serious scientists can actually argue a case for it. My point is, the brain is the source of everything we perceive and that includes the unusual and the unlikely, so I don't see how 'delusions' (sorry) can be singled out as originating in the brain. Everything originates in the brain. Why should these experiences be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASGOWOODS Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Just out of interest, especially with your job, do you find you have or have had any problems with electricity; shocks, gadgets going wrong, that sort of thing? Apparently, people sometimes experience this sort of phenomenon for a time after an Near death Experience. My granddad had a couple of strokes which rendered the right side of his body paralysed. His right arm/hand just hung limp, no mobility at all. Two years later on his deathbed at the hospital my mother was at his side talking to him even though there were no signs that he knew she was there. As he was slipping away my mother placed in his paralysed hand a wooden crucifix he had carried on himself throughout the 2nd world war and gave to my mum when she was a child. My mum kissed him and said "I love you dad" At this point my granddad gripped the crucifix and raised his paralysed arm across his chest, then passed away. How was this possible? Why was he able to move a paralysed arm/hand 2 years after? Hmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 My granddad had a couple of strokes which rendered the right side of his body paralysed. His right arm/hand just hung limp, no mobility at all. Two years later on his deathbed at the hospital my mother was at his side talking to him even though there were no signs that he knew she was there. As he was slipping away my mother placed in his paralysed hand a wooden crucifix he had carried on himself throughout the 2nd world war and gave to my mum when she was a child. My mum kissed him and said "I love you dad" At this point my granddad gripped the crucifix and raised his paralysed arm across his chest, then passed away. How was this possible? Why was he able to move a paralysed arm/hand 2 years after? Hmmmm? I don't know, Glasgowoods, I just know that the world is full of strange and wonderful things. I think they should at least be acknowledged. Thankyou for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 My granddad had a couple of strokes which rendered the right side of his body paralysed. His right arm/hand just hung limp, no mobility at all. Two years later on his deathbed at the hospital my mother was at his side talking to him even though there were no signs that he knew she was there. As he was slipping away my mother placed in his paralysed hand a wooden crucifix he had carried on himself throughout the 2nd world war and gave to my mum when she was a child. My mum kissed him and said "I love you dad" At this point my granddad gripped the crucifix and raised his paralysed arm across his chest, then passed away. How was this possible? Why was he able to move a paralysed arm/hand 2 years after? Hmmmm? Did you ask the doctors about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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