buck Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 And do you think that the brain is not capable of producing such things? Studies have also found that people have different, mutually exclusive delusions. There are some commonalities but that's to be expected if its the same process occurring in their brains. Find me a Christian who has a near death experience where they see a Hindu god. Or find me a Hindu who has a near death experience where they see Jesus. Nope, people see things from their own culture, or their own lives. How can you explain that? ---------- Post added 05-03-2014 at 16:39 ---------- ? It is an explanation, and my opinion. Ok, and what do you think is more likely, that your brain is tricking you into thinking you've been there before (something it's very capable of doing), or that you have somehow magically been there before in some sort of supernatural way? I have not invoked any kind of god in my statements, nor am I able to explain why it happened to me. If I was positive of a creator I would be more than happy to explain it. I am no more certain of a spiritual event than you ought to be about delusion. I am not in the habit of being deluded, with a reasonably solid logical mind, which has served me well as a trouble shooter in electronics. It just happened, live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have not invoked any kind of god in my statements, nor am I able to explain why it happened to me. If I was positive of a creator I would be more than happy to explain it. I am no more certain of a spiritual event than you ought to be about delusion. I am not in the habit of being deluded, with a reasonably solid logical mind, which has served me well as a trouble shooter in electronics. It just happened, live with it. Just out of interest, especially with your job, do you find you have or have had any problems with electricity; shocks, gadgets going wrong, that sort of thing? Apparently, people sometimes experience this sort of phenomenon for a time after an Near death Experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have not invoked any kind of god in my statements, nor am I able to explain why it happened to me.I didn't say anything about gods. I merely asked what you thought was more likely, that your brain is tricking you into thinking you've been there before (something it's very capable of doing), or that you have somehow magically been there before in some sort of supernatural way? I am no more certain of a spiritual event than you ought to be about delusion.Why? We know that the brain is capable of all sorts of things. Conversely, there is no evidence that any spiritual event has ever happened anywhere, ever. I am not in the habit of being deludedYeah I'm not sure deluded is the right word really, but if your brain had tricked you into 'seeing' what you saw and feeling what you felt (which it is very capable of) how would the experience have been different? ---------- Post added 05-03-2014 at 23:42 ---------- Same book as before: Page 70. Chapter 4 'The cultural variations of near death experience.' Indian NDE - "In 1977 the first cross cultural study of Indian and American deathbed visions was undertaken...... The Indians reported seeing religious figures of the Hindu culture...." I'm not going to copy the entire chapter, but does that answer your questions No not at all. That's what I was talking about. You seem to be happy to accept that they didn't really see these things, and that's just how their brain chose to interpret the 'being of light', why can you not go one step further and accept that the 'being of light' itself is also probably just the brain trying to interpret what's going on when we're close to death? She goes on to cross reference 15 different cultures across the globe. There are some cultural differences, but what is more surprising are the many similarities consistent with all cultures.Not particularly surprising no, we all have brains. You can't explain the differences though. She also discusses the difficulties people had finding the words to describe what had happened to them so it is not surprising they resort to their own religious cultural language. Here is a picture of the Hindu god of death Yama: http://www.asianart.com/exhibitions/tibet/15.html Do you really think people are getting him confused with Jesus? You think people are seeing the same 'being of light' and some people describe it as looking like a freindly bearded hippie in sandals and other people describe it as that thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I didn't say anything about gods. I merely asked what you thought was more likely, that your brain is tricking you into thinking you've been there before (something it's very capable of doing), or that you have somehow magically been there before in some sort of supernatural way? Why? We know that the brain is capable of all sorts of things. Conversely, there is no evidence that any spiritual event has ever happened anywhere, ever. Yeah I'm not sure deluded is the right word really, but if your brain had tricked you into 'seeing' what you saw and feeling what you felt (which it is very capable of) how would the experience have been different? ---------- Post added 05-03-2014 at 23:42 ---------- No not at all. That's what I was talking about. You seem to be happy to accept that they didn't really see these things, and that's just how their brain chose to interpret the 'being of light', why can you not go one step further and accept that the 'being of light' itself is also probably just the brain trying to interpret what's going on when we're close to death? Not particularly surprising no, we all have brains. You can't explain the differences though. Here is a picture of the Hindu god of death Yama: http://www.asianart.com/exhibitions/tibet/15.html Do you really think people are getting him confused with Jesus? You think people are seeing the same 'being of light' and some people describe it as looking like a freindly bearded hippie in sandals and other people describe it as that thing? You seem to live very much in the world of the literal and the prosaic. I don't know what happens at the point of death. I know what i'd like to happen, but have to accept that I just don't know. But I have enough imagination to remain open to different possibilities, the universe is a, vast mysterious place full of all kinds of wonders. One of the possibilities of course is that nothing happens at all, that what you see is what you get. But then who knows? You don't. Any more than I do. You, however, have no doubt you 'know' everything. Which is really rather sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 You seem to live very much in the world of the literal and the prosaic.Then you don't know me at all. I don't know what happens at the point of death. I know what i'd like to happen, but have to accept that I just don't know. But I have enough imagination to remain open to different possibilities, the universe is a, vast mysterious place full of all kinds of wonders. One of the possibilities of course is that nothing happens at all, that what you see is what you get. But then who knows? You don't. Any more than I do. You, however, have no doubt you 'know' everything. Which is really rather sad. I have plenty of doubt, as it happens. I'm ready to be convinced. You don't make much of a case though when you ignore my questions. I'll try once more though. You seem to be happy to accept that they didn't really see different beings from mutually exclusive religious canons, and think that's just how their brain chose to interpret the 'being of light', why can you not go one step further and accept that the 'being of light' itself is also probably just the brain trying to interpret what's going on when we're close to death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Suppose it's true that after death, some of us will be transformed into something better then taken to a better place. Does this mean that it's better to die than to live? How do you know we weren't better off then before we were born and came here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 How do you know we weren't better off then before we were born and came here? Like the legend of the Phoenix, all ends with beginning. Or maybe not!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Then you don't know me at all. I have plenty of doubt, as it happens. I'm ready to be convinced. You don't make much of a case though when you ignore my questions. I'll try once more though. You seem to be happy to accept that they didn't really see different beings from mutually exclusive religious canons, and think that's just how their brain chose to interpret the 'being of light', why can you not go one step further and accept that the 'being of light' itself is also probably just the brain trying to interpret what's going on when we're close to death? Because your argument is that at the point of death all brains are physically functioning the same due to lack of oxygen, endorphins and the like which gives rise to the same hallucination. But they're not. Brain scans have shown that different areas are firing, and blood samples have shown different chemical mixes some being heavily oxeginated and some full of carbon dioxide, and an assortment of different drugs. So why should the 'visions' have the same components? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Just out of interest, especially with your job, do you find you have or have had any problems with electricity; shocks, gadgets going wrong, that sort of thing? Apparently, people sometimes experience this sort of phenomenon for a time after an Near death Experience. It's been a while since I retired, but for years after the first mini computers came in, I was plagued with equipment that crashed a lot, so did everybody else in the industry. So it would have been hard to decide or not. The stuff is a lot better today. ---------- Post added 06-03-2014 at 19:58 ---------- Then you don't know me at all. I have plenty of doubt, as it happens. I'm ready to be convinced. You don't make much of a case though when you ignore my questions. I'll try once more though. You seem to be happy to accept that they didn't really see different beings from mutually exclusive religious canons, and think that's just how their brain chose to interpret the 'being of light', why can you not go one step further and accept that the 'being of light' itself is also probably just the brain trying to interpret what's going on when we're close to death? The experience I told about when I had the cardiac arrest was not light at all. It was rather dull, I wasn't happy or unhappy, not scared, not elated. In retrospect I felt disappointed that I wasn't allowed to go on. But I would have missed the joy of seven grandkids by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Studies have found that across all cultures that they experience a 'being of light' (which they may or may not attribute to their own culture,) and meeting deceased loved ones. Common elements are a 'tunnel,' or 'journey' from darkness into light, a beautiful place, often a garden, a prescence or being of light, telepathic communication, feelings of peace, joy and tranquility, a life review, a barrier beyond which they must not cross, and being sent back. Many report a marked change or attitude to life after the event, and knowing they have had a profound, life changing experience. you could be reliving birth? the beginning of life and the end of life ,both similar traumatic experiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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