Malaysian airlines plane missing

[JFKvsNixon]

Yeah, but somebody was making the point it could have got to PNG or Australia. The point I was making is that it would have had to cross either Malaysian/Indonesian airspace on Borneo, maybe Philipines airspace then into Australian airspace. The chance of it plotting a course to avoid all military (and civilian) radar on such a route would be minimal. If it did keep flying most likely it headed out to open sea away from radar.

 

How would anyone know that the blip on the radar would be the airliner though?

[I1L2T3]

How would anyone know that the blip on the radar would be the airliner though?

 

Size, velocity, elevation

 

Either it's an airliner or a massive military plane. If suspected military the authorities of countries like Australia or Indonesia would be very unlikely to ignore it.

[JFKvsNixon]

Size, velocity, elevation

 

Either it's an airliner or a massive military plane. If suspected military the authorities of countries like Australia or Indonesia would be very unlikely to ignore it.

 

Velocity and elevation won't identify a plane on radar. Are we sure that the type of radar that the countries have around that region is able to tell the difference between a triple 7 and a private plane?

[BEDROCK]

Has anyone bothered to check the land in neighbouring countries as it is clearly apparent the plane is not in the sea !!!

[L00b]

Velocity and elevation won't identify a plane on radar. Are we sure that the type of radar that the countries have around that region is able to tell the difference between a triple 7 and a private plane?

Velocity and elevation might not identify the plane, but will certainly distinguish a cruising jetliner from a turboprop puddle hopper, and that data in combination with coordinates relative to nearest coastline(s) will also contribute knowledge about the plane range, ergo type.

 

Radar data can potentially tell as much about what a return is, as about what it cannot be

Edited March 13, 2014 by L00b

[JFKvsNixon]

Velocity and elevation might not identify the plane, but will certainly distinguish a cruising jetliner from a turboprop puddle hopper, and that data in combination with coordinates relative to nearest coastline(s) will also contribute knowledge about the plane range, ergo type.

 

Radar data can potentially tell as much about what a return is, as about what it cannot be

 

Some propellor powered planes have do a high range, and the speed and altitude of the radar blip may not be highly accurate as the whoever was piloting the airliner may have decided, for whatever reason, to fly it slowly and low.

 

All I am saying is that these things in themselves might not be an accurate indicator of what the plan is on the radar if the transponder isn't working.

 

One thing is for sure, there is a lot of information being published without much conformation of the validity of the information, and this is confusing the situation.

[L00b]

As active radar coverage was allegedly inexistent, in the absence of anything found after 6 days (especially now that China has back-tracked on yesterday's sat images), anything could have happened, and no theory is worthier than any other (exception made of the outright loopy ones, e.g. UFOs).

 

Mid-air destruction, or even collision, gets my choice.

 

Accidental/coincidental, e.g. another plane (so far disavowed, or more simply not declared missing yet for whatever circumstantial reasons), or -astronomical odds this, but- a meteor, <etc.>

 

Or deliberate (terror act with large bomb, or downed by military).

 

FWIW, considering how things are 'evolving' between Malaysia and China atm, for all we know Beijing may have engineered the situation and downed the plane from a military sub, boat or plane for the purpose. Tinfoil hat stuff, of course...but it's not as if nation states never engage in realpolitik and/or are afraid of breaking some eggs.

 

Look at e.g. Russia with Crimea, it couldn't have got its military organised (no unit patches/vehicle markings/etc) and deployed so well and rapidly, without a lot more notice than "Yanukovich just turned up at the base in Sevastopol, why don't we get some more boots on the ground".

 

Time will tell I suppose. Gotta feel really sorry for the families of passengers and crew, I can't begin to imagine how they must feel in the face of such a perceptible fiasco.

Edited March 13, 2014 by L00b

[johncocker]

Well, they're not - basically because it's too expensive.

 

 

 

The internet location feeds are from one of two sources - individuals uploading the broadcasts from aircraft, and the FAA radar tracking in the US. Both of these will stop reporting an aircraft if it's transponder is disabled / broken - something which happens relatively regularly, and there are procedures in place to cover it.

 

 

 

The "continuous" isn't really continuous. There's one form of communication that works across 90% of the planet (the other 10% - the poles - are not covered) - ACARS. This is satellite based, and very expensive to send data across - I've heard prices of $2/byte mentioned.

 

As a result - while airlines *can* have continuous updates posted, most opt for less - priority messages are always sent (e.g. notification from the aircraft that the front left toilet has failed), while positional updates are not. Firms like Rolls Royce do monitor their engines, but this will again be prioritised - if the engine is working fine, they will only send out updates every now and again.

Furthermore, disconnecting power to the ACARS transmitters will completely disable this uplink. At the point the aircraft disappeared, all radio systems stopped communicating - this can only mean they lost power or were destroyed. And it looks like it can't be the latter, as we'd have found it by now.

 

 

To aid maintenance, most airlines use the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), which automatically collates and files four technical reports during every flight so that engineers can spot problems. These reports are sent via VHF radio or satellite at take-off, during the climb, at some point while cruising, and on landing.

 

 

quote/ Rolls Royce, received two data reports from flight MH370 at its global engine health monitoring centre in Derby, UK, where it keeps real-time tabs on its engines in use. One was broadcast as MH370 took off from Kuala Lumpur International Airport, the other during the 777's climb out towards Beijing.

 

As the engine data is filtered from a larger ACARS report covering all the plane's critical flight systems and avionics, it could mean the airline has some useful clues about the condition of the aircraft prior to its disappearance. The plane does not appear to have been cruising long enough to issue any more ACARS reports. It disappeared from radar at 1.30 AM local time, halfway between Malaysia and Vietnam over the Gulf of Thailand.

 

Under International Civil Aviation Organisation rules, such reports are normally kept secret until air investigators need them.

Edited March 13, 2014 by johncocker

[chalga]

In the press conference today,they said that they were still withholding some details of the flight tracked by the military until more checks are made.

[johncocker]

Malaysian transport minister is now dismissing the story,still insists that the last engine info was transmitted at 0107am.

 

, I think that anyone who has spent time in S .E asia (Malaysia }will know that the one thing their politicians and bureaucrats know how to do, is not to say anything and to pretend to not to know anything until their superiors tell them to pretend to know something.