ivanava Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Your right. Here is another future prediction, a man or woman will be killed by the state even though they have been wrongly convicted if we changed it to what you want. So its down which innocent people you feel are the most important, the ones that are wrongly convicted or the ones that are killed by the people that were rightly convicted but released from prison. ---------- Post added 13-03-2014 at 23:00 ---------- Whole life sentences, where deemed appropriate. So now you want to lock people up for an whole life sentences, what if they are innocent? ---------- Post added 13-03-2014 at 23:02 ---------- You want facts to back up my stance of asking you for numbers so we can judge your proposal? Umm, I think you need to rethink your request. I'm looking for you to change my stance, so far you have presented a single fact that would come close to changing it. If you think I am wrong give me some hard facts that will help me change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So its down which innocent people you feel are the most important, the ones that are wrongly convicted or the ones that are killed by the people that were rightly convicted but released from prison. Maybe if you could provide us with the numbers that led you to your proposal then we can judge it correctly in the context of the question that you ask above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So its down which innocent people you feel are the most important, the ones that are wrongly convicted or the ones that are killed by the people that were rightly convicted but released from prison. ---------- Post added 13-03-2014 at 23:00 ---------- So now you want to lock people up for an whole life sentences, what if they are innocent? At least they are still alive should evidence that could overturn their sentence become available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm looking for you to change my stance, so far you have presented a single fact that would come close to changing it. If you think I am wrong give me some hard facts that will help me change my mind. I'm not looking to change your mind, I wanted to look into your proposal in greater detail so I can judge if it's a worthy one or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 At least they are still alive should evidence that could overturn their sentence become available. How long could you tolerate a life behind bars in the knowledge that you are innocent? And no amount of evidence is ever going to come to light to prove that Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale are innocent and were wrongly convicted. ---------- Post added 13-03-2014 at 23:14 ---------- I'm not looking to change your mind, I wanted to look into your proposal in greater detail so I can judge if it's a worthy one or not. Then it is far better if you do your own research instead of looking to me for guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Then it is far better if you do your own research instead of looking to me for guidance. I'm sorry, I'm not looking for you to guide me. I thought that you'd had some knowledge of the problem before you came up with your proposal. After all, you said that your opinion was based upon facts, and I thought maybe that these facts would have been relevant. However if you think that it's better that I do not know these facts then maybe this proposal was created on a whim, and maybe we've spent far to long considering it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 How long could you tolerate a life behind bars in the knowledge that you are innocent? And no amount of evidence is ever going to come to light to prove that Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale are innocent and were wrongly convicted. So now you are arguing it would be a good idea for wrongly convicted people to be executed so that you could execute others? And you do know the Woolwich duo got whole life sentences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Clowning Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So its down which innocent people you feel are the most important, the ones that are wrongly convicted or the ones that are killed by the people that were rightly convicted but released from prison. There is a difference between them ? Either way someone innocent dies. I can't see your logic, so I will ask you to clarify it for me if you will, if you are killed by someone released or you are killed wrongly by the state which do you think is worse for the dead person ? ---------- Post added 13-03-2014 at 23:39 ---------- At least if a person released is doing the killing rather than the state then it leaves society with a guilt free conscience. You can't stop murder by killing or you would have to start killing people you merely suspect of committing the crime and then where does that leave us ? Also you totally ignore the people that commit the crime and then are released and live normal life's for fear of being incarcerated again or because they have been rehabilitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Very interesting. One thing that is striking is the interminable appeals process when a death sentence is passed. it obviously adds a whole different dimension to the appeals because a life is at stake. Must cost a fortune, perhaps well in excess of the cost of keeping somebody in prison for a whole life sentence. Sure it keeps the lawyers happy though. Well it is interminable alright but it casts aside the notion that a human life, even that of a vicious murderer is not a matter of concern or of importance and therefore lets hang him without any more delay Quite often if the accused is unable to afford a defence attorney the court appoints one for him. I dare say the costs of the appeal process along the way is paid for by the county. When the appeals process is exhausted, the date of execution set, the final decsion on whether to execute or commit to life in prison instead rests with the Governor of that particular State Bad luck if that State is Texas or Florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I'm sorry, I'm not looking for you to guide me. I thought that you'd had some knowledge of the problem before you came up with your proposal. After all, you said that your opinion was based upon facts, and I thought maybe that these facts would have been relevant. However if you think that it's better that I do not know these facts then maybe this proposal was created on a whim, and maybe we've spent far to long considering it? What you are looking for is a single link that can prove my point, but it isn't available, there are thousands of pages of information and many years of life experience and it's simply not possible to impart all this knowledge to you on an internet forum, and even then you might draw a different conclusion to the one I have. Its isn't a black and white subject. ---------- Post added 14-03-2014 at 06:57 ---------- So now you are arguing it would be a good idea for wrongly convicted people to be executed so that you could execute others? No I'm arguing that many innocent people have been murdered or raped by convicted murderers and rapists, and if they had been executed these people wouldn't have been murderers and raped. And you do know the Woolwich duo got whole life sentences? Yes I'm fully aware that they will be provided with more food, water entertainment, medical care and better accommodation than billions of people that haven't killed someone. ---------- Post added 14-03-2014 at 07:08 ---------- There is a difference between them ? Either way someone innocent dies. I can't see your logic, so I will ask you to clarify it for me if you will, if you are killed by someone released or you are killed wrongly by the state which do you think is worse for the dead person ? The one that is free, the innocent person that is likely to spend the rest of life in prison as less to loose, and I would certainly prefer death to life in prison. At least if a person released is doing the killing rather than the state then it leaves society with a guilt free conscience. What does it matter who does the killing if an innocent person ends up dead, at least if its the state that does it then at some point in the future their family will likely be compensated, not that any amount of compensation will bring them back. You can't stop murder by killing or you would have to start killing people you merely suspect of committing the crime and then where does that leave us ? Of cause you can, every murder that was committed by a convicted murderer could have been prevented. Also you totally ignore the people that commit the crime and then are released and live normal life's for fear of being incarcerated again or because they have been rehabilitated. No I haven't ignored them, I just value their life below that of people that haven't committed a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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